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So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM
I've thought of this before, but would like someone to show me some evidence to counter or accept it, or generally provide a statement on what you think...

You're tied to a pole. You dream yourself into TAR. You Travel to the place where you've tied yourself i.e. you exit TAR using a gateway. You free yourself.

Is there anything that contradicts this? We know that you can channel and Travel in TAR.


The problem is saying that you dreamed yourself into TaR in the first place. When Eggy wants to go to Salidar, she doesn't know exactly where to go and wants to take advantage of TaR properties (specifically the ability to walk/run/gallop super-fast). Eggy changes the surroundings and steps into TaR - that's the mechanism for her first Traveling.

But if you've already dreamed yourself into TaR, there's no body to step through a gateway. And I can't believe your spirit could step through a gateway into the Seen World. And if your spirit self tried to channel through a TaR gateway into the Seen World, I think the flows would evaporate.

If your spirit self could do things to your physical body, then everyone would stop dating because it would be the ultimate form of masturbation (and perhaps, literal homosexuality). If these things were possible, I think TaR might be the real Super-Weapon in the WoT world, not balefire or CK or Compulsion. You could give yourself a haircut while you sleep!

For all we know, this is that "Book 4-6 Thing" that Sanderson was talking about - but it *seems* to be impossible.
This message last edited by newyorkersedai on 26/05/2010 at 10:29:32 PM
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Help me out with a TAR problem Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1737 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem Datakim - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 1129 Views
No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 1180 Views
Re: No I don't mean that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 1023 Views
Re: No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 948 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 874 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 868 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 983 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 852 Views
I think it would be the latter RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 970 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 969 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM 881 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM 898 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM 939 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM 1011 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 923 Views
Re: I disagree RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 950 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 974 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 1092 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 930 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 902 Views
*nods* *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 420 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR BlackAdder - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 841 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 1043 Views
I don't agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 907 Views
you are misreading me I think darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 1037 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 981 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 943 Views
That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 934 Views
Re: That's the point. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 900 Views
Re: That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 876 Views
We may never know! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 919 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 886 Views
Interesting idea. Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 861 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 429 Views
Channeler heal thyself Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 1001 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 902 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem cmoorejr - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 898 Views
Doesn't work entyti - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 1110 Views
we've seen this fail darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 853 Views
I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 843 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 848 Views
As far as I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 910 Views
This could work DomA - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 1057 Views
Thanks Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 892 Views
Re: Thanks DomA - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 854 Views
So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 1145 Views
Is that really true? Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 917 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 440 Views
I would generally agree with your edits Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 878 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 792 Views
Re: yes and no Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 841 Views
5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM 859 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 926 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 874 Views
And I agree with your response newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 871 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. krassos - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 973 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 829 Views
The short answer to Birgitte krassos - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 854 Views
I think this is possible. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 920 Views
Dream gateway! Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 863 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 815 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind Jim - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 806 Views
aren't we all? *NM* newyorkersedai - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 395 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 831 Views
Why not? krassos - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 993 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 940 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 853 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 931 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. Gher - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 956 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 915 Views
Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling. Gher - 27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM 844 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 835 Views
That's a weird situation. Gher - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 889 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 917 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 946 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 861 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... HyogaRott - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 965 Views
Actually I don't think so.. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 820 Views
Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere. Fanatic-Templar - 28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM 803 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... Onarishma - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 901 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 1065 Views
Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ... Shishka - 27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM 1006 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 848 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 393 Views
problem solved... sort of? lummox - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 980 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 887 Views
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