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And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM

If it didn't Moghedien would have found a Black Sister and gotten herself free... or would have pulled Nynaeve or Elayne into TAR at some point and gotten revenge ... too many options for her if it didn't stop her.

But it seems likely that death or madness akin to Machin Chin eating your soul would be the outcome if you left TAR in Spirit form.


This seems likely.

I wonder if this might also explain the other bizarre thing with the whole Moghedien episode that I have often wondered about. When Nynaeve imagined the a'dam collar around Moghediens neck while they were both in TAR, why is it that Moghedien did not just imagine the a'dam into nothingness? I mean we know that is possible, we have seen people change their clothes or imagine things such as bushes or other items into vanishing.

Why did Moghedien who is supposedly such a master of TAR not just get rid of the collar with her mind. For that matter, why did she not just choose to wake up in the real world and free herself from the collar that way. We know that dreamers can wake up at-will.

This would all be explained if the a'dam has some inbuilt block that neutralises all dream-abilities. Once Nynaeve imagined the thing around Moghedien's neck, Moghedien was no longer able to influence TAR in any way, or leave TAR willingly. Maybe dreamers were a lot more common in Seanchan and something like this was required to prevent the damane from forcibly pulling the sul'dam to TAR and killing her in her dreams or something.


LoC
A Matter of Thought

Shifting to her bed; Nynaeve frowned and fiddled with the a’dam bracelet on her wrist. She always insisted one of them wear it even when they slept, though it produced decidedly odd and unpleasant dreams.

and when you are in TAR you cannot affect a woman wearing the collar

LoC
A Matter of Thought

Nynaeve stood there in an Accepted’s white dress with the banded hem, impatient beside Siuan and Leane. She had the silver bracelet, too, though it would not work from here to the waking world; it still held Moghedien, but Nynaeve, out of her body, would not be feeling anything through it.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 26/05/2010 at 10:55:38 PM
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Help me out with a TAR problem Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1603 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem Datakim - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 998 Views
No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 1024 Views
Re: No I don't mean that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 878 Views
Re: No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 808 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 731 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 736 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 841 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 718 Views
I think it would be the latter RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 833 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 766 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM 732 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM 741 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM 821 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM 792 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 770 Views
Re: I disagree RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 806 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 846 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 942 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 794 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 770 Views
*nods* *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 362 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR BlackAdder - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 707 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 904 Views
I don't agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 768 Views
you are misreading me I think darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 906 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 837 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 811 Views
That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 786 Views
Re: That's the point. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 763 Views
Re: That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 743 Views
We may never know! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 794 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 744 Views
Interesting idea. Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 724 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 370 Views
Channeler heal thyself Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 858 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 773 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem cmoorejr - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 763 Views
Doesn't work entyti - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 966 Views
we've seen this fail darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 712 Views
I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 711 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 723 Views
As far as I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 765 Views
This could work DomA - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 933 Views
Thanks Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 758 Views
Re: Thanks DomA - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 723 Views
So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 1008 Views
Is that really true? Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 784 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 380 Views
I would generally agree with your edits Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 749 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 659 Views
Re: yes and no Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 704 Views
5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM 705 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 770 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 736 Views
And I agree with your response newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 735 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. krassos - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 830 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 706 Views
The short answer to Birgitte krassos - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 718 Views
I think this is possible. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 768 Views
Dream gateway! Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 724 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 687 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind Jim - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 663 Views
aren't we all? *NM* newyorkersedai - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 324 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 678 Views
Why not? krassos - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 852 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 798 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 716 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 793 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. Gher - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 809 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 772 Views
Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling. Gher - 27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM 705 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 700 Views
That's a weird situation. Gher - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 745 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 770 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 791 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 733 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... HyogaRott - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 817 Views
Actually I don't think so.. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 697 Views
Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere. Fanatic-Templar - 28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM 655 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... Onarishma - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 770 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 922 Views
Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ... Shishka - 27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM 851 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 705 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 330 Views
problem solved... sort of? lummox - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 841 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 752 Views
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