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And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM

If it didn't Moghedien would have found a Black Sister and gotten herself free... or would have pulled Nynaeve or Elayne into TAR at some point and gotten revenge ... too many options for her if it didn't stop her.

But it seems likely that death or madness akin to Machin Chin eating your soul would be the outcome if you left TAR in Spirit form.


This seems likely.

I wonder if this might also explain the other bizarre thing with the whole Moghedien episode that I have often wondered about. When Nynaeve imagined the a'dam collar around Moghediens neck while they were both in TAR, why is it that Moghedien did not just imagine the a'dam into nothingness? I mean we know that is possible, we have seen people change their clothes or imagine things such as bushes or other items into vanishing.

Why did Moghedien who is supposedly such a master of TAR not just get rid of the collar with her mind. For that matter, why did she not just choose to wake up in the real world and free herself from the collar that way. We know that dreamers can wake up at-will.

This would all be explained if the a'dam has some inbuilt block that neutralises all dream-abilities. Once Nynaeve imagined the thing around Moghedien's neck, Moghedien was no longer able to influence TAR in any way, or leave TAR willingly. Maybe dreamers were a lot more common in Seanchan and something like this was required to prevent the damane from forcibly pulling the sul'dam to TAR and killing her in her dreams or something.


LoC
A Matter of Thought

Shifting to her bed; Nynaeve frowned and fiddled with the a’dam bracelet on her wrist. She always insisted one of them wear it even when they slept, though it produced decidedly odd and unpleasant dreams.

and when you are in TAR you cannot affect a woman wearing the collar

LoC
A Matter of Thought

Nynaeve stood there in an Accepted’s white dress with the banded hem, impatient beside Siuan and Leane. She had the silver bracelet, too, though it would not work from here to the waking world; it still held Moghedien, but Nynaeve, out of her body, would not be feeling anything through it.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 26/05/2010 at 10:55:38 PM
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Help me out with a TAR problem Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1665 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem Datakim - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 1060 Views
No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 1084 Views
Re: No I don't mean that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 942 Views
Re: No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 870 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 793 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 793 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 907 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 769 Views
I think it would be the latter RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 891 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 852 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM 805 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM 806 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM 868 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM 864 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 838 Views
Re: I disagree RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 877 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 895 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 1006 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 856 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 831 Views
*nods* *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 384 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR BlackAdder - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 766 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 963 Views
I don't agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 824 Views
you are misreading me I think darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 961 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 900 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 866 Views
That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 852 Views
Re: That's the point. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 821 Views
Re: That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 797 Views
We may never know! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 839 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 806 Views
Interesting idea. Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 786 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 387 Views
Channeler heal thyself Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 928 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 822 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem cmoorejr - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 823 Views
Doesn't work entyti - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 1029 Views
we've seen this fail darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 770 Views
I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 766 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 779 Views
As far as I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 830 Views
This could work DomA - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 984 Views
Thanks Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 820 Views
Re: Thanks DomA - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 781 Views
So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 1067 Views
Is that really true? Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 842 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 403 Views
I would generally agree with your edits Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 801 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 720 Views
Re: yes and no Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 768 Views
5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM 772 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 844 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 798 Views
And I agree with your response newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 805 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. krassos - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 891 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 760 Views
The short answer to Birgitte krassos - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 782 Views
I think this is possible. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 836 Views
Dream gateway! Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 777 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 745 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind Jim - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 722 Views
aren't we all? *NM* newyorkersedai - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 353 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 748 Views
Why not? krassos - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 913 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 853 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 781 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 853 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. Gher - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 862 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 820 Views
Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling. Gher - 27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM 760 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 759 Views
That's a weird situation. Gher - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 811 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 838 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 864 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 786 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... HyogaRott - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 887 Views
Actually I don't think so.. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 751 Views
Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere. Fanatic-Templar - 28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM 713 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... Onarishma - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 825 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 974 Views
Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ... Shishka - 27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM 922 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 772 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 352 Views
problem solved... sort of? lummox - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 907 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 803 Views
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