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That's a weird situation. Gher Send a noteboard - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM
And it's been a while since I've read this scene, so keep that in mind if I get anything wrong.

... is Moghedien tearing Birgitte out of Tel'aran'rhiod. Moghedien was not there in the flesh, and she did rip Birgitte out of the Dreamworld. Of course, it's not a clear situation because it can't be really said that Birgitte existed outside the Dreamworld, but it does indicate that Moghedien was able to affect reality from within her dreamwalking state. Now, whether that weave actually had properties other than Spirit...


I think that because Birgitte existed solely in TAR, it was possible to transport her out of TAR. Something went wrong, she was dying from it after all, but it worked. I think Sidious' scenario would require a complete separation of soul/mind/conciousness from body, probably killing the person. I also think an example provided above (by Datakim I think?) about Perrin being unable to enter a TAR Waygate is a good example of what would probably happen.

I honestly can't remember if it indicated Moghedien channeled to rip Birgitte out, or if was just super TAR-bending. Also, IIRC, saidar-Travelling requires only Spirit, while saidin-Travelling requires Spirit and Fire.

And I like your thought that dream-persons channeling in TAR is "pretending to use the One Power". That sounds much more likely.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
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Help me out with a TAR problem Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1737 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem Datakim - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 1127 Views
No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 1177 Views
Re: No I don't mean that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 1023 Views
Re: No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 946 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 874 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 865 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 978 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 849 Views
I think it would be the latter RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 970 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 965 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM 881 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM 896 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM 937 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM 1009 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 921 Views
Re: I disagree RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 947 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 974 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 1089 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 929 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 901 Views
*nods* *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 420 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR BlackAdder - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 841 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 1041 Views
I don't agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 905 Views
you are misreading me I think darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 1035 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 978 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 941 Views
That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 931 Views
Re: That's the point. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 899 Views
Re: That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 875 Views
We may never know! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 919 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 885 Views
Interesting idea. Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 859 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 428 Views
Channeler heal thyself Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 999 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 899 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem cmoorejr - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 898 Views
Doesn't work entyti - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 1110 Views
we've seen this fail darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 850 Views
I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 842 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 846 Views
As far as I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 909 Views
This could work DomA - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 1057 Views
Thanks Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 890 Views
Re: Thanks DomA - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 853 Views
So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 1143 Views
Is that really true? Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 915 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 439 Views
I would generally agree with your edits Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 876 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 792 Views
Re: yes and no Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 841 Views
5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM 857 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 924 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 872 Views
And I agree with your response newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 867 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. krassos - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 971 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 827 Views
The short answer to Birgitte krassos - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 854 Views
I think this is possible. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 918 Views
Dream gateway! Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 861 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 815 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind Jim - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 803 Views
aren't we all? *NM* newyorkersedai - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 394 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 831 Views
Why not? krassos - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 991 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 939 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 849 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 929 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. Gher - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 954 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 913 Views
Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling. Gher - 27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM 842 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 833 Views
That's a weird situation. Gher - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 887 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 915 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 944 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 858 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... HyogaRott - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 964 Views
Actually I don't think so.. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 820 Views
Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere. Fanatic-Templar - 28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM 800 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... Onarishma - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 899 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 1064 Views
Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ... Shishka - 27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM 1004 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 847 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 393 Views
problem solved... sort of? lummox - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 979 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 886 Views
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