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Nobody knows about Sul'dam because it takes them extra long to learn. FanEditor10 Send a noteboard - 03/06/2010 07:58:41 AM
Overall, I would agree that, whether or not RJ wrote this into the culture, I would imagine that testing there is a traumatizing effect on children. Not just girls--boys are tested too, except that male channelers are killed, IIRC. And men tend to exhibit the spark later than women, so their terror could potentially last a lot longer.

So, there are a couple of things to consider, although there are a lot of details we can't be sure of. First, channeling is a rare talent. So, most girls will not be collared. It's a genetic lottery, and given that channelers never marry or have children, the genetic tendencies are rare.

However, on the flip side, having a sul'dam in the family is a great honor, and is far more common (although it too is rare--just less rare than being a channeler). These are folks born with the ability to learn, but not channel innately, which I would imagine is on the genetic 'channeling spectrum'. Now, we don't know how often sul'dam marry. Very often? Do they tend to have many children? Are their lives subtly lengthened because of their quasi-channeling?

Are there no farmers in Seanchan? Does no one understand breeding? The fact that Egwene figures out that sul'dam can be collared, and yet NO Seanchan person in the culture itself has figured this out is frankly amazing. It defies belief, but RJ seems to suggest it is so. These folks really are brainwashed by their society into not thinking certain things. It's actually incredible that they've managed to maintain an empire for so long and conquer so much of Randland so successfully, given that they have been trained from birth by their culture to be so blinkered about what is staring them in the face. Tuon, who despite being rather xenophobic and superstitious, is actually pretty sharp, and yet even she hardly blinks an eye when finding out her culture is built on such extraordinary misdirection.

Perhaps the super-secret-society of Seanchan High Elders knows this, and would have informed Tuon when she became empress, had she not already known.

Anyway, back to your question. In sum, seeing as Aes Sedai rarely marry or have children, and have been 'culling' male channelers as well, and seeing as this has led to a decrease in the number of channelers, it stands to reason that channeling ability is rare in Seanchan as well. Only about 1 in 1000 is collared, and the chances go down from there after age 20, even if they don't let up until 25. The marriage issue is a good one--I wouldn't put it past Seanchan culture to kill the babies of women who later find out they can channel, or else turn them into da'covale for life.



1) I think the reason nobody before Egwene realizes the Sul'dam can channel is because until well after the age of twenty five they haven't "learned" enough of the one power by proxy to fail the test at the other end of the leash, and at 25 the testing stops. One sul'dam said at some point in the series that "sul'dam who have held the adam for a long time begin to be able to see what the damane do with the power." Suggesting that, because it is such an indirect form of learning, it takes much longer to get to a point where you may actually be able to gain Saidar by yourself. And of course, since nobody would think to collar a respected sul'dam after she passed her 25th year testing, nobody would ever know. If the High Seanchan Elders knew this secret, I would be very surprised, but it would be the perfect cover up.

2) I don't think any babies are killed because no matter how the Seanchan feel about Women they know or are related to being collared, the might of the Seanchan dynasty has been built on the backs of Damane the way the Egyptian empire was built on the backs of Hebrew slaves. I have not read anything that says this, but I would assume that killing the babes of women who have been collared would be frowned upon if not penalized by law. However the Seanchan feel about Damane as human beings, they surely don't want potential damane destroyed! I think the ability IS rare in Seanchan because of a lack of channelers reproducing, but on that side of the ocean it is because only perverts go to bed with Damane whereas in Randland, Aes Sedai rarely choose to complicate their lives with babes.

SIDENOTE: I do think, technically, that the Seanchan damane outnumber the Aes Sedai NOT ONLY because the Seanchan find every girl and not just the ones who seek them out to learn, but also because the Seanchan damane, unbound by Oaths, live twice as long. When your channelers live longer, you're likely to have more alive and serving you at any given time.
This message last edited by FanEditor10 on 03/06/2010 at 08:31:31 AM
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Seanchan girls. Do they live in terror until 25? - 02/06/2010 12:32:14 AM 1331 Views
A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 01:11:12 AM 741 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 02/06/2010 02:31:08 AM 749 Views
Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 03/06/2010 03:32:44 AM 734 Views
Re: Wasn't talking about breeding damane - 04/06/2010 07:30:55 PM 610 Views
Well, it took centuries for most people to understand breeding/genetics - 02/06/2010 08:57:43 PM 563 Views
Nobody knows about Sul'dam because it takes them extra long to learn. - 03/06/2010 07:58:41 AM 864 Views
Re: A few details to consider - 04/06/2010 07:33:39 AM 586 Views
I think it's seen as something that happens to other people. - 02/06/2010 02:20:09 AM 596 Views
I think they retest only the sul'dam - 02/06/2010 04:13:55 AM 771 Views
Re: I think they retest only the sul'dam - 04/06/2010 07:55:56 PM 583 Views
Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:15:26 AM 540 Views
Re: Point on the testing - 08/06/2010 02:46:06 PM 610 Views
Remember, Seancean have no idea channeling can be "learned" - 02/06/2010 07:04:11 AM 661 Views
This is how Damane and Sul'Dam are determined, straight from tGH - 03/06/2010 08:14:03 AM 849 Views
That doesn't make sense. Are you sure they don't put the BRACELET on the girls, not the collar? - 04/06/2010 01:35:08 AM 553 Views
I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 03:09:08 AM 622 Views
Re: I am absolutely sure. Quote from book. - 04/06/2010 11:54:25 AM 520 Views
Thanks Darius *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:48:28 AM 314 Views
Toun, though too young can be collared - 06/06/2010 03:29:29 AM 506 Views
I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 03:39:16 AM 595 Views
Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:04:33 AM 522 Views
Re: Everything points to a change in policy - 06/06/2010 04:18:21 AM 421 Views
Re: I don't think Tuon will ever Channel - 06/06/2010 05:07:40 AM 531 Views
Not at all - 02/06/2010 03:52:31 PM 497 Views
Re: Are the new damane actually tortured? - 02/06/2010 06:56:10 PM 628 Views
I think "tortured" is relative... - 03/06/2010 08:22:37 AM 591 Views
As with most things in Jordan's universe, I don't think it was thought through very seriously. - 03/06/2010 08:05:04 PM 518 Views
Huh? - 03/06/2010 08:44:35 PM 606 Views
Sure - 03/06/2010 09:00:40 PM 605 Views
Bah... - 03/06/2010 09:51:09 PM 584 Views
Jordan definitely made mistakes with the Ajahs. In particular, the Black Ajah ones who fled. - 03/06/2010 10:56:39 PM 576 Views
oh come now - 04/06/2010 12:58:44 AM 508 Views
Re: Sure - 04/06/2010 04:55:23 AM 651 Views
I don't know if that's totally true - 04/06/2010 12:09:29 PM 510 Views
Maybe you don't read that much serious literature? I just don't see why you are arguing this. - 04/06/2010 03:47:50 PM 516 Views
I actually don't read much fiction at all to be honest - 04/06/2010 04:00:03 PM 538 Views
You're right about the fact that I have mostly contempt for Jordan. - 04/06/2010 05:42:49 PM 523 Views
meh. I prefer non-fiction most of the time - 06/06/2010 03:44:38 AM 556 Views
I have read lots of fiction - 06/06/2010 03:57:07 AM 548 Views
Meh - 04/06/2010 05:03:41 PM 536 Views
LOL ... I hear ya on that - 06/06/2010 03:49:48 AM 568 Views
We've seen so little of the old tongue how can you tell? - 06/06/2010 03:33:46 AM 427 Views
This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:13:25 AM 493 Views
Re: This raises another question - 06/06/2010 04:53:42 AM 546 Views

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