Active Users:976 Time:31/01/2026 12:48:55 PM
The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power Sidious Send a noteboard - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM

The QP I submitted asked who the 2nd most powerful Forsaken is, after Ishamael. The two most popular answers were Demandred and Lanfear.

Jordan named Ishamael, Demandred, Sammael, Lanfear, Graendal and Semirhage as the top Forsaken in the Shadow - who were always near to the top of the Shadow hierarchy due to their skills in the physical and political world.

My own personal theory is that these six Forsaken are pretty similar in the One Power - so similar that dueling will probably lead to unpredictable results. I don't think that they are similar in strength - Ishamael could be considerably strong in saidin compared to Graendal or Semirhage. However, they all have special skills which make them powerful Forsaken. None of them hid like Moghedien, and all of them have shown that they are prepared to openly challenge a threat of equal power.

All of those six are extremely powerful in the One Power, with Ishamael and Lanfear showing the highest possible levels attainable, and the other four with slightly less. Regarding individual skill, Demandred is generally skilled in most things, and Graendal and Semirhage are among the most skilled in their fields who have ever lived. All six are equally willing to kill an opponent, and are all established mass murderers. Lanfear, Sammael and Semirhage are openly aggressive Forsaken who devastate first and ask questions later. Ishamael, Demandred and Graendal shy away from direct conflict if they can and use precision strikes and uncommon skills to undermine their opponents.

In summary I think that those six Forsaken are close to the top of everything - strength, skill, attitude towards battle. Where one has great strength in something it is balanced by a weakness somewhere else. Ishamael is probably the single most powerful of the thirteen overall, which is pretty much hinted at in the books on several occasions. The other five are probably all on a relatively level playing field.

Demandred, Lanfear, Semirhage, Graendal and Sammael could probably duel one another with unpredictable results, and the result would be 50-50 if they dueled a hundred times. It makes them inferior to Ishamael and Lews Therin, but not to each other.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Reply to message
The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1865 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1045 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1109 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 903 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 1008 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1079 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1087 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 992 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1040 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 960 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 992 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 936 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 903 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 980 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 899 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 1001 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 504 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 916 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1068 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 941 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 869 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 869 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1454 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 898 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 959 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 977 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 824 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 907 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1059 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1050 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 925 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 516 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 486 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 421 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 463 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 975 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 830 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 904 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 769 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1031 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 866 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 433 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 475 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 896 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1119 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1078 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 836 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1026 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 787 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 930 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 793 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 946 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 915 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 890 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1244 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 882 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 842 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 921 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 1008 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 964 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 936 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 915 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 891 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 902 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 929 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 831 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 919 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 946 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 764 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 823 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 857 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 905 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 939 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 699 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 753 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 845 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 848 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 803 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 939 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 832 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 968 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 873 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1066 Views

Reply to Message