Active Users:2145 Time:01/08/2026 03:26:17 PM
I think power is much more than raw strength Sidious Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM
If raw strength in the power is considered, then Aginor is second to Ishamael. But as you've pointed out, Aginor was a sniveling little weasle with no skill. Without skill, Aginor's superior strength means little which is why that loser grovels before Demandred and many of the rest.

Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.

It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.

But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!



You're totally right that Aginor was probably second in strength. However, when RJ made his point about strength vs skill by using Alivia and Cyndane, and directly telling us about it in his blog, it was convincing evidence that a channeler's skills and knowledge can bridge vast gaps in strength. RJ went as far to say that Alivia was 'much stronger' than Cyndane in that battle, but that skill and knowledge evened it out. Thus when channelers like Graendal or Semirhage duel, it is likely that they can bridge almost any strength gap, if there is one. It's not like there's much to bridge... any of the Forsaken are close to the highest strength possible in saidin or saidar.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Reply to message
The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1969 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1136 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1228 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 1000 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 1118 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1184 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1181 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 1087 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1132 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 1050 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 1091 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 1032 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 1021 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 1078 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 1007 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 1110 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 551 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 1023 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1201 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 1031 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 962 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 969 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1544 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 999 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 1058 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 1086 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 929 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 1000 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1165 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1143 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 1027 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 560 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 527 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 467 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 508 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 1078 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 925 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 1016 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 853 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1139 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 962 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 478 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 528 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 1005 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1229 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1178 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 937 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1143 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 901 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 1033 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 902 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 1044 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 1005 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 1010 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1337 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 971 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 932 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 1041 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 1112 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 1066 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 1025 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 1006 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 1011 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 997 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 1034 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 923 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 1019 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 1046 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 882 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 933 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 962 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 1005 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 1050 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 783 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 842 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 929 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 950 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 905 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 1044 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 921 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 1054 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 959 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1155 Views

Reply to Message