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I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. Lanfear Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM
If raw strength in the power is considered, then Aginor is second to Ishamael. But as you've pointed out, Aginor was a sniveling little weasle with no skill. Without skill, Aginor's superior strength means little which is why that loser grovels before Demandred and many of the rest.

Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.

It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.

But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!



You're totally right that Aginor was probably second in strength. However, when RJ made his point about strength vs skill by using Alivia and Cyndane, and directly telling us about it in his blog, it was convincing evidence that a channeler's skills and knowledge can bridge vast gaps in strength. RJ went as far to say that Alivia was 'much stronger' than Cyndane in that battle, but that skill and knowledge evened it out. Thus when channelers like Graendal or Semirhage duel, it is likely that they can bridge almost any strength gap, if there is one. It's not like there's much to bridge... any of the Forsaken are close to the highest strength possible in saidin or saidar.


Graendal or Semirhage could bridge a strength gap, as long as the person they are up against has less than average skill or less than average battle prowess/instincts. For example, if Graendal or Semirhage fight me, I'd kill them.

Moghedien and I didn't fight back against Graendal last time b/c we were ordered not to by Shaidar Haran and Moridin. If I wanted to, I would have kicked Graendal's arse.



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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1912 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1084 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1158 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 953 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 1066 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1138 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1138 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 1045 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1091 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 1004 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 1040 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 981 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 950 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 1029 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 953 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 1061 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 528 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 967 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1134 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 994 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 915 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 923 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1502 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 952 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 1009 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 1025 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 882 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 944 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1107 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1099 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 981 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 541 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 506 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 446 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 486 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 1027 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 877 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 955 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 814 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1089 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 910 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 457 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 502 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 953 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1166 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1130 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 887 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1091 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 836 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 983 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 849 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 996 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 964 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 953 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1288 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 927 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 896 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 990 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 1059 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 1016 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 979 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 964 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 948 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 953 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 987 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 878 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 970 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 1004 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 819 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 878 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 904 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 958 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 1001 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 747 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 800 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 885 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 895 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 851 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 990 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 877 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 1015 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 922 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1119 Views

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