Active Users:534 Time:30/10/2026 10:32:13 PM
The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power Sidious Send a noteboard - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM

The QP I submitted asked who the 2nd most powerful Forsaken is, after Ishamael. The two most popular answers were Demandred and Lanfear.

Jordan named Ishamael, Demandred, Sammael, Lanfear, Graendal and Semirhage as the top Forsaken in the Shadow - who were always near to the top of the Shadow hierarchy due to their skills in the physical and political world.

My own personal theory is that these six Forsaken are pretty similar in the One Power - so similar that dueling will probably lead to unpredictable results. I don't think that they are similar in strength - Ishamael could be considerably strong in saidin compared to Graendal or Semirhage. However, they all have special skills which make them powerful Forsaken. None of them hid like Moghedien, and all of them have shown that they are prepared to openly challenge a threat of equal power.

All of those six are extremely powerful in the One Power, with Ishamael and Lanfear showing the highest possible levels attainable, and the other four with slightly less. Regarding individual skill, Demandred is generally skilled in most things, and Graendal and Semirhage are among the most skilled in their fields who have ever lived. All six are equally willing to kill an opponent, and are all established mass murderers. Lanfear, Sammael and Semirhage are openly aggressive Forsaken who devastate first and ask questions later. Ishamael, Demandred and Graendal shy away from direct conflict if they can and use precision strikes and uncommon skills to undermine their opponents.

In summary I think that those six Forsaken are close to the top of everything - strength, skill, attitude towards battle. Where one has great strength in something it is balanced by a weakness somewhere else. Ishamael is probably the single most powerful of the thirteen overall, which is pretty much hinted at in the books on several occasions. The other five are probably all on a relatively level playing field.

Demandred, Lanfear, Semirhage, Graendal and Sammael could probably duel one another with unpredictable results, and the result would be 50-50 if they dueled a hundred times. It makes them inferior to Ishamael and Lews Therin, but not to each other.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Reply to message
The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 2168 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1187 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1294 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 1041 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 1157 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1242 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1231 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 1131 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1199 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 1106 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 1154 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 1088 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 1079 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 1136 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 1068 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 1152 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 575 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 1093 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1266 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 1087 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 1023 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 1008 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1607 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 1059 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 1126 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 1157 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 974 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 1058 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1236 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1198 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 1084 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 600 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 555 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 503 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 547 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 1134 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 993 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 1084 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 907 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1211 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 1020 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 521 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 561 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 1063 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1302 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1250 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 1002 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1201 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 955 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 1102 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 965 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 1117 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 1064 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 1077 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1409 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 1023 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 989 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 1113 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 1178 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 1130 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 1085 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 1052 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 1072 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 1059 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 1093 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 974 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 1074 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 1118 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 943 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 1007 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 1024 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 1046 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 1112 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 839 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 889 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 987 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 1001 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 965 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 1133 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 968 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 1102 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 1006 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1205 Views

Reply to Message