I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing.
Lanfear Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM
If raw strength in the power is considered, then Aginor is second to Ishamael. But as you've pointed out, Aginor was a sniveling little weasle with no skill. Without skill, Aginor's superior strength means little which is why that loser grovels before Demandred and many of the rest.
Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.
It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.
But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!
Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.
It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.
But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!
You're totally right that Aginor was probably second in strength. However, when RJ made his point about strength vs skill by using Alivia and Cyndane, and directly telling us about it in his blog, it was convincing evidence that a channeler's skills and knowledge can bridge vast gaps in strength. RJ went as far to say that Alivia was 'much stronger' than Cyndane in that battle, but that skill and knowledge evened it out. Thus when channelers like Graendal or Semirhage duel, it is likely that they can bridge almost any strength gap, if there is one. It's not like there's much to bridge... any of the Forsaken are close to the highest strength possible in saidin or saidar.
Graendal or Semirhage could bridge a strength gap, as long as the person they are up against has less than average skill or less than average battle prowess/instincts. For example, if Graendal or Semirhage fight me, I'd kill them.
Moghedien and I didn't fight back against Graendal last time b/c we were ordered not to by Shaidar Haran and Moridin. If I wanted to, I would have kicked Graendal's arse.
The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power
- 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM
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The Big White Book says...
- 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM
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Not Aginor
- 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM
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Re: Not Aginor
- 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM
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Re: Not Aginor
- 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM
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Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy
- 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM
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But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar
- 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM
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It all depends on how you define "powerful"
- 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM
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I think power is much more than raw strength
- 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM
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I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing.
- 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM
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So is graendal similar to lanfear then?
- 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM
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Graendal could fight Lanfear and win
- 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM
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Graendal herself says...
- 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM
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Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power
- 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM
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Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then?
- 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM
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Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters
- 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM
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But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM*
- 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM
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Not at all
- 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM
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But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM*
- 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM
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Apparently only the third time counts
*NM*
- 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM
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But the third time's supposed to be lucky. So that won't count either. *NM*
- 13/09/2009 11:26:18 PM
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*NM*
- 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM
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But the third time's supposed to be lucky. So that won't count either. *NM*
- 13/09/2009 11:26:18 PM
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Really?
- 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM
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No falsely...
- 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM
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- 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM
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And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much
- 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM
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They correlate on some critical points
- 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM
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That's not exactly what I'm referring to.
- 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM
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But then we are discussing the same thing
- 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM
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I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers
- 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM
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Probably
- 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM
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I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael
- 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM
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I do think Ishamel is special
- 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM
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He's special the same way any individual is special.
- 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM
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Re: He's special the same way any individual is special.
- 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM
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Re: He's special the same way any individual is special.
- 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM
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Re: He's special the same way any individual is special.
- 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM
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The more interesting question is...
- 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM
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Hmmm
- 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM
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I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar.
- 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM
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Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM*
- 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM
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Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree!
- 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM
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They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks
- 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM
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I've never underestimated Graendal
- 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM
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Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too.
- 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM
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To me, she is the most lethal.
- 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM
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I still like Lanfear more
- 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM
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- 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM
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Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien
- 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM
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Agreed
- 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM
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Ummm... how do we know?
- 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM
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only in love *NM*