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I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. Lanfear Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM
If raw strength in the power is considered, then Aginor is second to Ishamael. But as you've pointed out, Aginor was a sniveling little weasle with no skill. Without skill, Aginor's superior strength means little which is why that loser grovels before Demandred and many of the rest.

Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.

It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.

But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!



You're totally right that Aginor was probably second in strength. However, when RJ made his point about strength vs skill by using Alivia and Cyndane, and directly telling us about it in his blog, it was convincing evidence that a channeler's skills and knowledge can bridge vast gaps in strength. RJ went as far to say that Alivia was 'much stronger' than Cyndane in that battle, but that skill and knowledge evened it out. Thus when channelers like Graendal or Semirhage duel, it is likely that they can bridge almost any strength gap, if there is one. It's not like there's much to bridge... any of the Forsaken are close to the highest strength possible in saidin or saidar.


Graendal or Semirhage could bridge a strength gap, as long as the person they are up against has less than average skill or less than average battle prowess/instincts. For example, if Graendal or Semirhage fight me, I'd kill them.

Moghedien and I didn't fight back against Graendal last time b/c we were ordered not to by Shaidar Haran and Moridin. If I wanted to, I would have kicked Graendal's arse.



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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1844 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1028 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1091 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 883 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 994 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1061 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1067 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 967 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1019 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 940 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 971 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 911 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 884 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 939 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 879 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 986 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 498 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 894 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1048 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 924 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 853 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 856 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1428 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 882 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 938 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 962 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 802 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 887 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1038 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1032 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 908 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 510 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 480 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 413 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 457 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 955 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 809 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 888 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 728 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1010 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 851 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 428 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 469 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 872 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1099 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1054 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 819 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1003 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 771 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 911 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 773 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 925 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 897 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 869 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1208 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 862 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 824 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 895 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 987 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 940 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 913 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 896 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 873 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 883 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 887 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 815 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 885 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 924 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 745 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 805 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 840 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 888 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 919 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 681 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 733 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 827 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 825 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 786 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 918 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 811 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 949 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 856 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1041 Views

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