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Forsaken Chapter Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/09/2009 10:42:33 PM
I found the Forsaken chapter somewhat disappointing. It was clearly the work of someone who had all the superficial information about each Forsaken, but was trying to summarize their personalities all over again as if presenting it for the first time.

Graendal was talking about Demandred and Semirhage as if thinking about them for the first time. From this chapter you wouldn't think she'd known them for four thousand years, give or take a little. Or rather, for about 300 years in realtime, give or take a few decades.

As an example:

Based on Demandred's reaction to one comment from Moridin, Graendal suddenly changes her opinion regarding which of Demandred or Semirhage is the more dangerous to her? What the hell? It's not like she hasn't observed their respective tactics, attitudes and attributes over the course of a WORLD WAR that lasted for 10 years!

I would think that she would have made up her mind about their comparative strengths by now.

What is clear to me now is that the female Forsaken are even more gender-biased than the males when it comes to assessing the strengths of fellow Chosen. Everyone was criticising Rahvin for underestimating Lanfear in FoH, but Graendal seems to naturally consider the female Semirhage to be a foe as dangerous as Demandred. This despite her acknowledging that Demandred might have been the Dragon HIMSELF had he stayed with the Light!

That simply does not make sense. It is clear that Demandred is the leader of the trio. And it is also clear that Graendal is not half as cunning and intelligent as everyone has been making out up to now.


For one, it has NEVER before been suggested that Demandred sought to keep his alliance with Mesaana and Semirhage secret from the other Forsaken. For pete's sake, they've openly huddled together AT FORSAKEN MEETINGS in previous books. Arangar knew about their alliance in Book 11, yet she did not consider it to be any kind of achievement to have this insight. It is open knowledge. Yet Graendal thinks herself smart for "cracking that secret." I mean, come on.

And the way Graendal thinks about Moridin - making him her pet etc. She clearly has immense delusions of grandeur.

My estimation of Graendal has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY after reading this chapter.

What has come across yet again, however, is just how dangerous Demandred is. In EVERY appearance thus far, throughout the series, he has only been regarded with respect or awe by other Forsaken. We have had references to his ability and menace from almost all the Forsaken by now.

Graendal refers to the immense danger he presents, and then her female bias seems to elevate Semirhage to a position equal to that of a potential Dragon. Only for an instant, though, until Sanderson seems to bring reality home to us, however dubious the suggestion that Graendal had not yet analysed the comparative strengths of these two Forsaken a few thousand years ago already.

More revealing than Graendal's opionion, however, was Arangar's comparative view of Graendal and Demandred. The common thread between Arangar and Graendal's views was their high estimates for Demandred's ability. The difference, is that Arangar considered Graendal a far less dangerous adversary to try and manipulate. If I recall, her words were something to the effect that Demandred was far too dangerous to play her games with.

I particularly enjoyed the casual way Demandred stated that he would have tracked Semirhage down and claimed her life in retribution had she killed Rand. None of the other Forsaken reacted with ridicule at his statement. Certainly Mesaana did not, and she knows Semirhage's strength - having compared it to her own before.

And despite Demandred's arrogance, he has never made idle boasts before. If anything, the contrary has been true. He has refrained from making any kind of threats the less controlled Sammael was prone to make.

My conclusions based on this chapter:

Graendal is dumber than we thought up to now.

Graendal is going to die in this book.

Demandred's stature was enhanced yet again. He has consistently been built up as a Forsaken of note, and will no doubt make a dramatic entry towards the very end of the series, playing a key role in the final outcome.

Moridin is starting to put personal issues above the goals of the Dark One. Or rather, his insanity is making him even more stupid than before. The idea of sacrificing an asset of Semirhage's ability just because she hurt his phantom hand a little is petty and short sighted in the extreme.
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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 1) *spoilers* - 16/09/2009 04:56:20 AM 5669 Views
Re: TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 1) *spoilers* - 16/09/2009 06:33:25 AM 1831 Views
TGS with Tracy Jordan *NM* - 16/09/2009 07:58:20 AM 817 Views
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lol this is great... - 17/09/2009 06:37:47 AM 1525 Views
Why so many edits? *NM* - 24/09/2009 05:30:44 AM 875 Views
I said I was posting comments as I was reading it - 24/09/2009 06:19:09 AM 1346 Views
So has no one really read it yet or - 17/09/2009 06:55:52 AM 1375 Views
Re: So has no one really read it yet or - 17/09/2009 06:59:09 AM 1486 Views
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Well, spoilers obviously... - 17/09/2009 06:59:01 AM 1839 Views
Maybe it was Demandred. - 17/09/2009 07:01:53 AM 1512 Views
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Cruel and shady? - 17/09/2009 07:24:34 AM 1552 Views
I agree. - 18/09/2009 06:29:07 AM 1423 Views
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Oh Honey, - 18/09/2009 07:37:53 AM 1164 Views
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This is the only time I have ever liked Faile. Atta girl! *NM* - 17/09/2009 09:20:58 PM 754 Views
Was it just me..... - 17/09/2009 07:17:34 AM 1583 Views
B I'd guess - 17/09/2009 07:24:05 AM 1392 Views
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There are only two options - 17/09/2009 09:29:28 AM 1412 Views
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Ummm... why? - 17/09/2009 08:17:59 AM 1495 Views
Didn't mean in this book, I meant before series end *NM* - 17/09/2009 08:26:34 AM 853 Views
I think Min gets toasted - 17/09/2009 09:34:35 AM 1314 Views
That will happen regardless - 17/09/2009 08:47:51 PM 1268 Views
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Thanks. - 18/09/2009 06:06:34 PM 1310 Views
And right before she dies - 18/09/2009 09:09:45 PM 1273 Views
Ash'aman?! - 17/09/2009 03:51:09 PM 1379 Views
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About OP strength - 18/09/2009 09:28:45 PM 1347 Views
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Thulin is my new fav - 17/09/2009 04:23:08 PM 1471 Views
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Okay. I've been out of the loop for months, sadly. - 25/09/2009 05:24:34 PM 1338 Views

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