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Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange Send a noteboard - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM
I found the Forsaken chapter somewhat disappointing. It was clearly the work of someone who had all the superficial information about each Forsaken, but was trying to summarize their personalities all over again as if presenting it for the first time.


It's strange that you figured this out, yet attribute some of Brandon's 'shortcomings' to the character itself.



What is clear to me now is that the female Forsaken are even more gender-biased than the males when it comes to assessing the strengths of fellow Chosen. Everyone was criticising Rahvin for underestimating Lanfear in FoH, but Graendal seems to naturally consider the female Semirhage to be a foe as dangerous as Demandred. This despite her acknowledging that Demandred might have been the Dragon HIMSELF had he stayed with the Light!


you should reread that. She doesn't think he might have been the Dragon himself. She says that HE thinks he might have been. It's also implied she thinks he's deluding himself.

That simply does not make sense. It is clear that Demandred is the leader of the trio. And it is also clear that Graendal is not half as cunning and intelligent as everyone has been making out up to now.


I don't agree with either statement. There's isn't really a leader to the trio and there's nothing clear about it.

For one, it has NEVER before been suggested that Demandred sought to keep his alliance with Mesaana and Semirhage secret from the other Forsaken. For pete's sake, they've openly huddled together AT FORSAKEN MEETINGS in previous books. Arangar knew about their alliance in Book 11, yet she did not consider it to be any kind of achievement to have this insight. It is open knowledge. Yet Graendal thinks herself smart for "cracking that secret." I mean, come on.


This is Brandon's mistake. Quite obviously.

What has come across yet again, however, is just how dangerous Demandred is. In EVERY appearance thus far, throughout the series, he has only been regarded with respect or awe by other Forsaken. We have had references to his ability and menace from almost all the Forsaken by now.


I'm not sure I agree. One interesting part was when Demandred goes into a "Only I get to kill Lews Therin" fit, and Moridin kind of shrugs him off as a useful hound. "Yeah sure sure whatever. You'll do it". Later when Moridin is left with Graendal he remarks thar Al'Thor musn't be hurt till he faces Morirind on the last day. Clearly he isn't taking Demandred too seriously. I wonder if it might turn out to Rand's advantage at that final moment.

More revealing than Graendal's opionion, however, was Arangar's comparative view of Graendal and Demandred. The common thread between Arangar and Graendal's views was their high estimates for Demandred's ability. The difference, is that Arangar considered Graendal a far less dangerous adversary to try and manipulate. If I recall, her words were something to the effect that Demandred was far too dangerous to play her games with.


Yes, but that's because he might try to kill you. Graendal would rather entangle you in her plots. And she has more sense of humor to flirting/ploting.

This message last edited by AgentOrange on 19/09/2009 at 09:54:05 AM
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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* Sidious - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3407 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* Blaine - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 277 Views
mobipocket.com NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 819 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* Blaine - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 322 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* NaClH2O - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 284 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue ajfurst - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 699 Views
As short as the prologue was Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 711 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 608 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? RandAllThor - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 676 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 726 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 386 Views
The interview BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 772 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 817 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM* Lanfear - 20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM 391 Views
Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 764 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 790 Views
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You blame her? *NM* Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 327 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 664 Views
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Trollocs! NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 799 Views
Why not a gray man then? Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 792 Views
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What Cache is in Ebou Dar? NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 748 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 657 Views
But there's no plausible deniability Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 738 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 728 Views
Why? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 651 Views
simple answer:scouts redhand - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 681 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 642 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 778 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* MikeyMikeyMikey - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 359 Views
Great idea. Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 686 Views
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Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM 704 Views
No one. Terez - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 620 Views
A possibility, but... NaClH2O - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 671 Views
Well, yeah... Terez - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 637 Views
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Fades are smart enough though Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 645 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts Lanfear - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 897 Views
Or PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 812 Views
My first thought was Great Lord of Chaos - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 711 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 788 Views
*NM* AliasRY - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 424 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 708 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... Cannoli - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 756 Views
Lol *NM* Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 677 Views
Forsaken Chapter Shannow - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 756 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 328 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 844 Views
Wrong... Shannow - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 817 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 866 Views
Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 899 Views
Re: Huh Shannow - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 822 Views
Re: Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 825 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 790 Views
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No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* Shannow - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 300 Views
Remove your blinders man... fionwe1987 - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 811 Views
After third reread StinkerSkunk - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 740 Views
Ituralde's plan ajfurst - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 678 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that AliasRY - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 771 Views
This makes perfect sense The Dude - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 653 Views
Various comments Etzel - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 761 Views
The Dying Man Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 760 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 733 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... Etzel - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 615 Views
Symbolism Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 596 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 706 Views
That is a really stupid idea Guava - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 702 Views
Yeah Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 668 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 706 Views
This isn't evidence. Yvves - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 778 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 615 Views
Personally, I disagree. Digital_Eon - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 697 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 612 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 665 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Shannow - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 663 Views
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Levee en Masse Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 690 Views
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I think Demendred might take over though AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 594 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? Shannow - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 773 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand Sidious - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 764 Views
Some sweeping statements there... Shannow - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 719 Views
Not at all Sidious - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 759 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... Shannow - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 774 Views
Not really Sidious - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 825 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... Shannow - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 642 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 742 Views
Possible... Shannow - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 646 Views
So that's your argument now? fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 601 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... Shannow - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 663 Views
Its simply, really. Heiko - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 671 Views
Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 688 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 565 Views
Sure. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 311 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 660 Views
Well Heiko - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 700 Views
Re: Well Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 798 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 668 Views
Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 799 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1610 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 648 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 572 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 670 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 656 Views
But these aren't criminals... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 557 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable Sidious - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 761 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable fionwe1987 - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 686 Views
Doubt it... Etzel - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 733 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 628 Views
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