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I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM
It is one of the worst failings of fantasy that it is peppered with villains who are suave, sensible and yet unspeakably evil.

It makes no sense to ask for a villain who has no blinders, no idiocies, no weaknesses yet makes the monumentally idiotic decision to support a deity who is out to destroy the world.

Ishamael, Graendal, Lanfear, Semirhage, Demandred, ec. might have been the foremost brains of their Age, but their obsession with themselves and their own opinions (which drove them to the Shadow) has got to have an effect on the way they act, which is going to have an effect on their success.

More, given that they are working in a civilization that is vastly different from the one they operated in, I don't see how much cooler one can expect them to be.

Jordan did the "unforgivable" mistake of making his villains realistic and more "everyday" rather than leaving them untouched as the awesome legends they were thought to be. I think that is one of the greatest strengths of the series.

As for measuring their success by their survivial in unfair physical contests... I can assure you that two moderately strong people could have killed Hitler without any difficulty. Especially if he were magically transported back to 1000 B.C. or something. Doesn't affect the fact that he is one of the most evil villains known to humanity. Doesn't change the fact that he was a self absorbed moron either.
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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* Sidious - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3513 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* Blaine - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 378 Views
mobipocket.com NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 923 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* Blaine - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 359 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* NaClH2O - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 380 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue ajfurst - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 787 Views
As short as the prologue was Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 799 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 764 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? RandAllThor - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 770 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 884 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 481 Views
The interview BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 998 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 978 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM* Lanfear - 20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM 488 Views
Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 873 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 894 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM 486 Views
You blame her? *NM* Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 434 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 751 Views
I get the feeling they want to jump ship Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:13:51 PM 864 Views
Trollocs! NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 952 Views
Why not a gray man then? Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 900 Views
I'm going to guess it was Demandred Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:12:19 PM 929 Views
What Cache is in Ebou Dar? NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 834 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 753 Views
But there's no plausible deniability Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 921 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 823 Views
Why? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 745 Views
simple answer:scouts redhand - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 827 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 796 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 994 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* MikeyMikeyMikey - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 461 Views
Great idea. Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 767 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM 860 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM 851 Views
No one. Terez - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 721 Views
A possibility, but... NaClH2O - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 851 Views
Well, yeah... Terez - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 735 Views
Isn't it obvious...Semirhage sent the Trollocs Lanfear - 18/09/2009 06:38:15 PM 890 Views
Fades are smart enough though Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 728 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts Lanfear - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 1064 Views
Or PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 909 Views
My first thought was Great Lord of Chaos - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 926 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 882 Views
*NM* AliasRY - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 512 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 862 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... Cannoli - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 846 Views
Lol *NM* Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 890 Views
Forsaken Chapter Shannow - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 873 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 438 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 937 Views
Wrong... Shannow - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 921 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 1036 Views
Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 1005 Views
Re: Huh Shannow - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 976 Views
Re: Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 940 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 1096 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 05:40:14 PM 946 Views
No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* Shannow - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 403 Views
Remove your blinders man... fionwe1987 - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 926 Views
After third reread StinkerSkunk - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 839 Views
Ituralde's plan ajfurst - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 852 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that AliasRY - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 921 Views
This makes perfect sense The Dude - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 761 Views
Various comments Etzel - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 867 Views
The Dying Man Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 961 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 825 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... Etzel - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 696 Views
Symbolism Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 692 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 834 Views
That is a really stupid idea Guava - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 945 Views
Yeah Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 826 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 911 Views
This isn't evidence. Yvves - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 873 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 776 Views
Personally, I disagree. Digital_Eon - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 836 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 725 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 748 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Shannow - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 759 Views
I think there are many issues here Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM 938 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 771 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion Sidious - 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM 796 Views
Its a stretch, but... Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:34:28 PM 685 Views
I thought about that Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:02 AM 711 Views
Levee en Masse Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 792 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Curie - 20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM 851 Views
I think Demendred might take over though AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 750 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? Shannow - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 874 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand Sidious - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 951 Views
Some sweeping statements there... Shannow - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 819 Views
Not at all Sidious - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 891 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... Shannow - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 881 Views
Not really Sidious - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 935 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... Shannow - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 752 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 841 Views
Possible... Shannow - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 737 Views
So that's your argument now? fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 745 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... Shannow - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 766 Views
Its simply, really. Heiko - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 831 Views
Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 794 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 660 Views
Sure. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 349 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 838 Views
Well Heiko - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 802 Views
Re: Well Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 929 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 873 Views
Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 922 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1712 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 787 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 689 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 769 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 813 Views
But these aren't criminals... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 666 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable Sidious - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 867 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable fionwe1987 - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 781 Views
Doubt it... Etzel - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 838 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 737 Views
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