"Demandred is going to lead a large army, and fight in the Final Battle as a general, but he's probably going to die by someone else's hand - my own personal opinion is it will either be Mat who kills him, or Logain. Demandred's theme is treachery to achieve greatness, and RJ will deny him that. There's almost no chance that Demandred will rise above his personality flaw and his inability to beat Lews Therin. RJ never rewards the Forsaken."
One could argue that the point has repeatedly been made that Demandred takes no joy from military strategy, that he is in fact a reluctant general, and that military strategy is merely a necessary sideshow for him in his primary quest of destroying Lews Therin. This has been made very clear. It was made yet again in the Prologue to TGS.
The confrontation between Lews Therin and Demandred has been built up from both sides (by both Demandred and Lews Therin himself), throughout the series. You don't think that it would be quite an anti-climax if nothing comes of it? Certainly, RJ could have gotten a lot more mileage out of Demandred's character than he has up to now. The only reason for keeping him in the background would be for the brief bits of foreshadowing to culminate in this epic confrontation at the end.
"I think the stage has been adequately set up for Moridin and Rand to meet and fight. The Final Battle is about the two champions of the Light and Shadow meeting - there's really no place for the other Forsaken."
One could equally argue that the theme of the Shadow being brought low by its very nature - by the infighting and betrayal within its own ranks - would be equally well demonstrated by Demandred thwarting Moridin on the cusp of victory by killing Rand instead of letting him be turned.
It is pretty clear now that Moridin's only hope is for Rand to be turned to the Shadow rather than being killed. His decision to bring Graendal into his fold is driven precisely by this need. He needs her to use her specialist skills to start preparing him psychologically for covnersion to the Shadow. Rand being killed would be the exact opposite of what he needs to happen - and yet that is exactly what is going to happen. Rand WILL die -at least this incarnation of him will. That much has been heavily foreshadowed. Whether his soul lives on in another body is yet to be revealed. But he will die, somehow. And the above is a likely way for it to happen, in my view.
"Even if Demandred did meet Rand, he'd be annihilated. Rand is the most powerful and dangerous man in the world. He can't be defeated. Even Moridin is going to lose to him."
Moridin isn't going to fight him. Because killing him will kill Moridin as well. I agree that no one is going to beat Rand in a face to face confrontation. But the end won't be a face to face, one on one battle to the death. It will be a complex, multi-faceted engagement, with plenty of opportunity for treacherous balefiring from the sides, and no doubt with more than one unexpected twist thrown in for good measure.
One could argue that the point has repeatedly been made that Demandred takes no joy from military strategy, that he is in fact a reluctant general, and that military strategy is merely a necessary sideshow for him in his primary quest of destroying Lews Therin. This has been made very clear. It was made yet again in the Prologue to TGS.
The confrontation between Lews Therin and Demandred has been built up from both sides (by both Demandred and Lews Therin himself), throughout the series. You don't think that it would be quite an anti-climax if nothing comes of it? Certainly, RJ could have gotten a lot more mileage out of Demandred's character than he has up to now. The only reason for keeping him in the background would be for the brief bits of foreshadowing to culminate in this epic confrontation at the end.
"I think the stage has been adequately set up for Moridin and Rand to meet and fight. The Final Battle is about the two champions of the Light and Shadow meeting - there's really no place for the other Forsaken."
One could equally argue that the theme of the Shadow being brought low by its very nature - by the infighting and betrayal within its own ranks - would be equally well demonstrated by Demandred thwarting Moridin on the cusp of victory by killing Rand instead of letting him be turned.
It is pretty clear now that Moridin's only hope is for Rand to be turned to the Shadow rather than being killed. His decision to bring Graendal into his fold is driven precisely by this need. He needs her to use her specialist skills to start preparing him psychologically for covnersion to the Shadow. Rand being killed would be the exact opposite of what he needs to happen - and yet that is exactly what is going to happen. Rand WILL die -at least this incarnation of him will. That much has been heavily foreshadowed. Whether his soul lives on in another body is yet to be revealed. But he will die, somehow. And the above is a likely way for it to happen, in my view.
"Even if Demandred did meet Rand, he'd be annihilated. Rand is the most powerful and dangerous man in the world. He can't be defeated. Even Moridin is going to lose to him."
Moridin isn't going to fight him. Because killing him will kill Moridin as well. I agree that no one is going to beat Rand in a face to face confrontation. But the end won't be a face to face, one on one battle to the death. It will be a complex, multi-faceted engagement, with plenty of opportunity for treacherous balefiring from the sides, and no doubt with more than one unexpected twist thrown in for good measure.
This message last edited by Shannow on 20/09/2009 at 01:32:29 PM
TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers*
- 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM
3437 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM*
- 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM
308 Views
mobipocket.com
- 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM
853 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM*
- 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM
334 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
- 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM
720 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
- 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM
647 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi
- 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM
863 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM*
- 20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM
413 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious?
- 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM
814 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM*
- 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM
412 Views
Trollocs!
- 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM
836 Views
Why not a gray man then?
- 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM
830 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible
- 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM
684 Views
But there's no plausible deniability
- 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM
791 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done
- 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM
751 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack?
- 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM
836 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM*
- 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM
389 Views
Great idea.
- 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM
710 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
- 18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM
742 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
- 18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM
743 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts
- 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM
968 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal
- 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM
811 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool'
- 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM
747 Views
- 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM
747 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken...
- 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM
784 Views
- 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM
784 Views
Forsaken Chapter
- 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM
794 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM*
- 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM
363 Views
Various comments
- 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM
799 Views
The Dying Man
- 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM
824 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs
- 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM
751 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim
- 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM
764 Views
This isn't evidence.
- 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM
804 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table
- 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM
657 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
- 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM
692 Views
I think there are many issues here
- 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM
831 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken
- 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM
708 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion
- 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM
695 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
- 20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM
792 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt?
- 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM
806 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand
- 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM
822 Views
Some sweeping statements there...
- 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM
755 Views
Not at all
- 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM
803 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points...
- 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM
806 Views
Not really
- 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM
866 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself...
- 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM
679 Views
But...
- 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM
780 Views
Possible...
- 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM
667 Views
So that's your argument now?
- 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM
638 Views
- 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM
638 Views
I think you took that the wrong way...
- 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM
695 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise
- 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM
720 Views
Just a general comment...
- 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM
845 Views
Re: Just a general comment...
- 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM
1639 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain.
- 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM
699 Views
I don't really agree
- 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM
692 Views
But these aren't criminals...
- 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM
588 Views

*NM*
*NM*