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I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM
It is one of the worst failings of fantasy that it is peppered with villains who are suave, sensible and yet unspeakably evil.

It makes no sense to ask for a villain who has no blinders, no idiocies, no weaknesses yet makes the monumentally idiotic decision to support a deity who is out to destroy the world.

Ishamael, Graendal, Lanfear, Semirhage, Demandred, ec. might have been the foremost brains of their Age, but their obsession with themselves and their own opinions (which drove them to the Shadow) has got to have an effect on the way they act, which is going to have an effect on their success.

More, given that they are working in a civilization that is vastly different from the one they operated in, I don't see how much cooler one can expect them to be.

Jordan did the "unforgivable" mistake of making his villains realistic and more "everyday" rather than leaving them untouched as the awesome legends they were thought to be. I think that is one of the greatest strengths of the series.

As for measuring their success by their survivial in unfair physical contests... I can assure you that two moderately strong people could have killed Hitler without any difficulty. Especially if he were magically transported back to 1000 B.C. or something. Doesn't affect the fact that he is one of the most evil villains known to humanity. Doesn't change the fact that he was a self absorbed moron either.
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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* Sidious - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3514 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* Blaine - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 379 Views
mobipocket.com NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 923 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* Blaine - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 359 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* NaClH2O - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 380 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue ajfurst - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 788 Views
As short as the prologue was Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 800 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 765 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? RandAllThor - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 771 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 886 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 482 Views
The interview BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 999 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 980 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM* Lanfear - 20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM 489 Views
Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 875 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 896 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM 487 Views
You blame her? *NM* Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 434 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 752 Views
I get the feeling they want to jump ship Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:13:51 PM 865 Views
Trollocs! NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 953 Views
Why not a gray man then? Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 901 Views
I'm going to guess it was Demandred Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:12:19 PM 931 Views
What Cache is in Ebou Dar? NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 835 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 755 Views
But there's no plausible deniability Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 922 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 824 Views
Why? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 748 Views
simple answer:scouts redhand - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 829 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 798 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 995 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* MikeyMikeyMikey - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 462 Views
Great idea. Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 769 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM 862 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM 853 Views
No one. Terez - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 722 Views
A possibility, but... NaClH2O - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 852 Views
Well, yeah... Terez - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 737 Views
Isn't it obvious...Semirhage sent the Trollocs Lanfear - 18/09/2009 06:38:15 PM 891 Views
Fades are smart enough though Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 729 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts Lanfear - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 1066 Views
Or PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 910 Views
My first thought was Great Lord of Chaos - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 927 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 884 Views
*NM* AliasRY - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 513 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 864 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... Cannoli - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 847 Views
Lol *NM* Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 892 Views
Forsaken Chapter Shannow - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 875 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 438 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 938 Views
Wrong... Shannow - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 923 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 1038 Views
Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 1007 Views
Re: Huh Shannow - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 977 Views
Re: Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 941 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 1097 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 05:40:14 PM 948 Views
No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* Shannow - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 404 Views
Remove your blinders man... fionwe1987 - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 928 Views
After third reread StinkerSkunk - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 841 Views
Ituralde's plan ajfurst - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 854 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that AliasRY - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 923 Views
This makes perfect sense The Dude - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 761 Views
Various comments Etzel - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 868 Views
The Dying Man Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 962 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 826 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... Etzel - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 697 Views
Symbolism Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 693 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 835 Views
That is a really stupid idea Guava - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 947 Views
Yeah Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 828 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 913 Views
This isn't evidence. Yvves - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 875 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 778 Views
Personally, I disagree. Digital_Eon - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 836 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 727 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 750 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Shannow - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 761 Views
I think there are many issues here Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM 939 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 773 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion Sidious - 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM 797 Views
Its a stretch, but... Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:34:28 PM 687 Views
I thought about that Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:02 AM 713 Views
Levee en Masse Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 793 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Curie - 20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM 851 Views
I think Demendred might take over though AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 751 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? Shannow - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 877 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand Sidious - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 953 Views
Some sweeping statements there... Shannow - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 821 Views
Not at all Sidious - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 892 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... Shannow - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 882 Views
Not really Sidious - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 937 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... Shannow - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 753 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 843 Views
Possible... Shannow - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 739 Views
So that's your argument now? fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 747 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... Shannow - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 768 Views
Its simply, really. Heiko - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 833 Views
Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 795 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 662 Views
Sure. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 350 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 839 Views
Well Heiko - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 804 Views
Re: Well Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 931 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 874 Views
Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 924 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1713 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 788 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 691 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 771 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 815 Views
But these aren't criminals... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 666 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable Sidious - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 869 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable fionwe1987 - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 782 Views
Doubt it... Etzel - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 839 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 738 Views
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