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Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM
Attention seeking as always, I see.

Some of Graendal's thoughts shed more light on the subject of pecking order among the Chosen. Particularly her thoughts about Semirhage vs. Demandred vs. Mesaana are intriguing. These thoughts I do not doubt and I now believe that Semirhage and Demandred are pretty much on an equal playing field. Mesaana clearly seems weaker in Graendal's opinion.

Nonetheless, before we jump to the conclusion that Mesaana is weaker in the power, we should at least look at all of the evidence. Graendal's thoughts could have been implying much more than just one power strength/prowess. I think many of Graendal's thoughts were looking at someone's ability to manipulate others, control events, etc., and were not necessarily a reflection of who would win in a one power duel. It very well could be that Mesaana is just as strong of a channeler as the others, but that she lacks the political maneuvering skills of Demandred and Semirhage. Maybe that is why Graendal sees Mesaana as weaker than Demi or Semi.

Maybe. It could well be thay Mesaana is as strong as Semirhage in the Power, but completely lacks in areas like skill, etc.

Also, now that Graendal has an angreal, any statements regarding how she personally would do against the other Chosen have to be scrutinized closely. Of course Graendal's confidence in her ability to confront the other Chosen is boosted. She has an angreal. Without her angreal she might be expressing different opinions about her own ability to confront the others. What affect does Graendal's angreal have on her ascertainment of her own ability to confront the others? You have to admit it has some effect, perhaps a significant effect.

There's no effect at all because it is a really weak angreal. Graendal herself says that it offers hardly any advantage, except that someone attacking her with a belief that they knew her strength would be surprised.
Anyway, even before the angreal, she was totally ready to fight down Lanfear, so I don't see any point discussing her abilities. She can clearly match the best.
I wouldn't describe Graendal as afraid of Demandred or Semirhage. But there's no doubt that she wonders whether she could take either of them out. I think this is the best evidence so far that Demandred and Semirhage are more powerful than Graendal, in one power terms. Simply put, even with the angreal's boost in strength, Graendal thinks she is only evenly matched against Demandred or Semirhage. That says a lot. Take away her angreal, and it clearly shows that Graendal is weaker than both Demi and Semi.

What? Graendal makes no mention of not being able to take them out. She only says they would be significant hurdles to cross. Which is true, because a little angreal counts for nothing. Demandred will apparently not go after Rand till he has a sa'angreal, and he's almost as strong and as skilled as him.
Also, take note of the fact that Graendal coolly accepts a job where she can definitely be killed by Rand. She also plans to have Moridin as her slave.
All these only prove that the top six Forsaken are more or less similar in the OP and it is personality and brains that make the difference.

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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* Sidious - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3343 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* Blaine - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 231 Views
mobipocket.com NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 742 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* Blaine - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 294 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* NaClH2O - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 237 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue ajfurst - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 636 Views
As short as the prologue was Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 646 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 519 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? RandAllThor - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 605 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 640 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 339 Views
The interview BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 665 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 720 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM* Lanfear - 20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM 350 Views
Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 687 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 713 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM 332 Views
You blame her? *NM* Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 279 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 596 Views
I get the feeling they want to jump ship Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:13:51 PM 660 Views
Trollocs! NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 712 Views
Why not a gray man then? Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 720 Views
I'm going to guess it was Demandred Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:12:19 PM 663 Views
What Cache is in Ebou Dar? NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 688 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 590 Views
But there's no plausible deniability Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 637 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 664 Views
Why? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 588 Views
simple answer:scouts redhand - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 599 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 554 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 671 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* MikeyMikeyMikey - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 310 Views
Great idea. Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 625 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM 611 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM 620 Views
No one. Terez - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 548 Views
A possibility, but... NaClH2O - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 582 Views
Well, yeah... Terez - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 578 Views
Isn't it obvious...Semirhage sent the Trollocs Lanfear - 18/09/2009 06:38:15 PM 729 Views
Fades are smart enough though Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 570 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts Lanfear - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 771 Views
Or PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 743 Views
My first thought was Great Lord of Chaos - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 610 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 725 Views
*NM* AliasRY - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 379 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 625 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... Cannoli - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 695 Views
Lol *NM* Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 565 Views
Forsaken Chapter Shannow - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 686 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 282 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 747 Views
Wrong... Shannow - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 744 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 775 Views
Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 822 Views
Re: Huh Shannow - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 727 Views
Re: Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 750 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 666 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 05:40:14 PM 654 Views
No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* Shannow - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 256 Views
Remove your blinders man... fionwe1987 - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 733 Views
After third reread StinkerSkunk - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 672 Views
Ituralde's plan ajfurst - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 587 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that AliasRY - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 680 Views
This makes perfect sense The Dude - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 591 Views
Various comments Etzel - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 681 Views
The Dying Man Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 656 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 666 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... Etzel - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 555 Views
Symbolism Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 534 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 615 Views
That is a really stupid idea Guava - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 591 Views
Yeah Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 578 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 601 Views
This isn't evidence. Yvves - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 714 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 516 Views
Personally, I disagree. Digital_Eon - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 613 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 519 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 595 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Shannow - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 600 Views
I think there are many issues here Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM 702 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 620 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion Sidious - 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM 560 Views
Its a stretch, but... Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:34:28 PM 512 Views
I thought about that Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:02 AM 548 Views
Levee en Masse Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 619 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Curie - 20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM 690 Views
I think Demendred might take over though AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 503 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? Shannow - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 699 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand Sidious - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 657 Views
Some sweeping statements there... Shannow - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 647 Views
Not at all Sidious - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 684 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... Shannow - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 699 Views
Not really Sidious - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 748 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... Shannow - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 569 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 670 Views
Possible... Shannow - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 584 Views
So that's your argument now? fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 500 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... Shannow - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 593 Views
Its simply, really. Heiko - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 574 Views
Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 622 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 499 Views
Sure. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 282 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 563 Views
Well Heiko - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 642 Views
Re: Well Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 726 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 558 Views
Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 716 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1537 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 540 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 496 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 609 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 564 Views
But these aren't criminals... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 487 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable Sidious - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 698 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable fionwe1987 - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 613 Views
Doubt it... Etzel - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 676 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 546 Views
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