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Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM
Attention seeking as always, I see.

Some of Graendal's thoughts shed more light on the subject of pecking order among the Chosen. Particularly her thoughts about Semirhage vs. Demandred vs. Mesaana are intriguing. These thoughts I do not doubt and I now believe that Semirhage and Demandred are pretty much on an equal playing field. Mesaana clearly seems weaker in Graendal's opinion.

Nonetheless, before we jump to the conclusion that Mesaana is weaker in the power, we should at least look at all of the evidence. Graendal's thoughts could have been implying much more than just one power strength/prowess. I think many of Graendal's thoughts were looking at someone's ability to manipulate others, control events, etc., and were not necessarily a reflection of who would win in a one power duel. It very well could be that Mesaana is just as strong of a channeler as the others, but that she lacks the political maneuvering skills of Demandred and Semirhage. Maybe that is why Graendal sees Mesaana as weaker than Demi or Semi.

Maybe. It could well be thay Mesaana is as strong as Semirhage in the Power, but completely lacks in areas like skill, etc.

Also, now that Graendal has an angreal, any statements regarding how she personally would do against the other Chosen have to be scrutinized closely. Of course Graendal's confidence in her ability to confront the other Chosen is boosted. She has an angreal. Without her angreal she might be expressing different opinions about her own ability to confront the others. What affect does Graendal's angreal have on her ascertainment of her own ability to confront the others? You have to admit it has some effect, perhaps a significant effect.

There's no effect at all because it is a really weak angreal. Graendal herself says that it offers hardly any advantage, except that someone attacking her with a belief that they knew her strength would be surprised.
Anyway, even before the angreal, she was totally ready to fight down Lanfear, so I don't see any point discussing her abilities. She can clearly match the best.
I wouldn't describe Graendal as afraid of Demandred or Semirhage. But there's no doubt that she wonders whether she could take either of them out. I think this is the best evidence so far that Demandred and Semirhage are more powerful than Graendal, in one power terms. Simply put, even with the angreal's boost in strength, Graendal thinks she is only evenly matched against Demandred or Semirhage. That says a lot. Take away her angreal, and it clearly shows that Graendal is weaker than both Demi and Semi.

What? Graendal makes no mention of not being able to take them out. She only says they would be significant hurdles to cross. Which is true, because a little angreal counts for nothing. Demandred will apparently not go after Rand till he has a sa'angreal, and he's almost as strong and as skilled as him.
Also, take note of the fact that Graendal coolly accepts a job where she can definitely be killed by Rand. She also plans to have Moridin as her slave.
All these only prove that the top six Forsaken are more or less similar in the OP and it is personality and brains that make the difference.

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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* Sidious - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3459 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* Blaine - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 328 Views
mobipocket.com NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 874 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* Blaine - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 341 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* NaClH2O - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 330 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue ajfurst - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 741 Views
As short as the prologue was Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 754 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 679 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? RandAllThor - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 721 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 812 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 431 Views
The interview BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 880 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 893 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM* Lanfear - 20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM 435 Views
Well, Lanfear... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 824 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 835 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM 428 Views
You blame her? *NM* Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 382 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 710 Views
I get the feeling they want to jump ship Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:13:51 PM 822 Views
Trollocs! NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 870 Views
Why not a gray man then? Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 849 Views
I'm going to guess it was Demandred Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:12:19 PM 850 Views
What Cache is in Ebou Dar? NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 789 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 701 Views
But there's no plausible deniability Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 831 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done NaClH2O - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 774 Views
Why? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 698 Views
simple answer:scouts redhand - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 743 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 718 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 886 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* MikeyMikeyMikey - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 410 Views
Great idea. Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 723 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back Ryan - 18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM 782 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM 779 Views
No one. Terez - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 670 Views
A possibility, but... NaClH2O - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 760 Views
Well, yeah... Terez - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 684 Views
Isn't it obvious...Semirhage sent the Trollocs Lanfear - 18/09/2009 06:38:15 PM 844 Views
Fades are smart enough though Rurouni_Kenshin - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 684 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts Lanfear - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 998 Views
Or PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 864 Views
My first thought was Great Lord of Chaos - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 826 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 833 Views
*NM* AliasRY - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 471 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 787 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... Cannoli - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 800 Views
Lol *NM* Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 780 Views
Forsaken Chapter Shannow - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 817 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 389 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 895 Views
Wrong... Shannow - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 875 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 954 Views
Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 953 Views
Re: Huh Shannow - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 903 Views
Re: Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 889 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 955 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 05:40:14 PM 865 Views
No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* Shannow - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 356 Views
Remove your blinders man... fionwe1987 - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 870 Views
After third reread StinkerSkunk - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 785 Views
Ituralde's plan ajfurst - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 775 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that AliasRY - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 849 Views
This makes perfect sense The Dude - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 705 Views
Various comments Etzel - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 816 Views
The Dying Man Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 866 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 769 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... Etzel - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 652 Views
Symbolism Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 640 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 774 Views
That is a really stupid idea Guava - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 837 Views
Yeah Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 749 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 803 Views
This isn't evidence. Yvves - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 819 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 692 Views
Personally, I disagree. Digital_Eon - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 765 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 676 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 707 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Shannow - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 721 Views
I think there are many issues here Sidious - 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM 866 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 727 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion Sidious - 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM 725 Views
Its a stretch, but... Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:34:28 PM 634 Views
I thought about that Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:02 AM 661 Views
Levee en Masse Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 746 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? Curie - 20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM 806 Views
I think Demendred might take over though AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 670 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? Shannow - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 831 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand Sidious - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 863 Views
Some sweeping statements there... Shannow - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 772 Views
Not at all Sidious - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 828 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... Shannow - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 829 Views
Not really Sidious - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 884 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... Shannow - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 700 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 794 Views
Possible... Shannow - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 691 Views
So that's your argument now? fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 670 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... Shannow - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 718 Views
Its simply, really. Heiko - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 750 Views
Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 742 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 613 Views
Sure. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 330 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 758 Views
Well Heiko - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 755 Views
Re: Well Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 871 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 769 Views
Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 867 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1660 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 734 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 642 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 723 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 732 Views
But these aren't criminals... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 614 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable Sidious - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 820 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable fionwe1987 - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 734 Views
Doubt it... Etzel - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 785 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 692 Views
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