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On gateways Sidious Send a noteboard - 18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM
You stated in the sub-thread above that Androl's gateway talent disproves Logain's gateway comparison as strength evidence.

Well, it does not. Look at the context.

Yes, there exists some form of gateway talent, just like Berowin's shielding talent. But channelers' own comments prove to us that this is rare enough that gateway size in general is very strongly associated with channeler strength.

And in particular, Logain's comment tells us that in the Logain/Rand case, it is stronly correlated.

Logain is a leader of the Ashaman who has direct experience of the strengths and gateway sizes of hundreds of male channelers.

And clearly, based on his experience with such a large number of channelers, strength and gateway size is correlated in such a vast majority of cases that Logain feels Rand's gateway size is a very strong indication of his comparative strength.

And furthermore, Logain only makes this comment AFTER sensing Rand's full strength, and commenting on the fact that this indeed is Rand's full strength.

Hence, AFTER sensing Rand's full strength, he still states that their comparative gateway sizes are in correspondence with their strength difference.

Logain himself makes this evaluation, having both their comparative gatway sizes and comparative strengths at hand to make this comparison. And he STILL is comfortable that the one is in correspondence to the other.

So definitely in this instance strength is related to gateway strength, and quite accurately too, and judging by Logain's confidence in the obviousness of the correlation, also in the vast majority of other instances, gateway size is perfectly correlated to strength.





I don't think its perfectly correlated at all. Firstly, we know that it's a Talent, which means that by definition channelers display varying aptitudes with the weave. Forgetting even outliers like Androl and Berowin who show extreme forms of the Talent, we have seen that Aviendha makes smaller gateways than Elayne despite having very similar strength in the Power. If we knew nothing about the two channelers, we would mistakenly assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha.

I do agree that there is a strong correlation between the two. Logain has obviously seen enough Ash'aman weaving gateways. He makes the biggest gateways and he's also the strongest Ash'aman. Rand makes a bigger gateway and is also stronger. However, we don't know if Rand's is proportionately more. Rand may be 5% stronger than Logain but because he has a strong Talent, his gateways are 20% larger in area. Conversely, Logain may have a weak Talent. Most Aes Sedai can only make a gateway large enough to put their arms through, but they aren't a hundred times weaker than Rand. The relationship is not completeley linear.

The stronger you are in the Power, the bigger your gateways. There is no doubt of that. But you can't extrapolate strength from a gateway. If Demandred saw Androl from a distance he might think that he is very strong in the Power, but it is a poor assumption which I don't think he'd make in the first place.

And because we're discussing strength in general, remember that it takes roughly as many women to hold Rand and Logain. Their power must be close, especially because Logain tried to break free and five women almost lost the shield.
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This message last edited by Sidious on 18/12/2011 at 07:20:19 AM
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The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4? - 12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM 1049 Views
I find that unlikely - 12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM 1006 Views
Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR? - 13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM 1061 Views
Well.... - 13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM 1064 Views
Well there we have it - 13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM 1070 Views
Re: Well there we have it - 13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM 1091 Views
Re: Well there we have it - 13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM 1039 Views
Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve... - 14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM 1129 Views
That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM* - 14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM 553 Views
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Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe... - 14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM 1169 Views
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The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ... - 14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM 1006 Views
Yes! And...? - 15/12/2011 02:53:37 AM 1004 Views
Yes I would agree with that - 14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM 1155 Views
Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane - 14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM 942 Views
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Correct. - 14/12/2011 09:43:53 PM 1054 Views
Re: Correct. - 15/12/2011 05:54:37 AM 1016 Views
So many instances of logical laziness in that post... - 14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM 1469 Views
Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post... - 15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM 976 Views
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And entirely based off your shared assumption. - 14/12/2011 05:15:51 AM 1092 Views
Actually that's a lot of logical assumption. *NM* - 13/12/2011 01:28:00 PM 490 Views
But... - 14/12/2011 03:06:15 AM 863 Views
And - 30/12/2011 05:07:13 PM 973 Views
Yes - 13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM 1137 Views
Re: Yes - 13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM 1068 Views
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None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it... - 13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM 1010 Views
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What Rand is doing... - 14/12/2011 03:43:08 AM 1100 Views
That would make sense given Min's vision - 16/12/2011 04:37:56 PM 912 Views
Wait.. I DIDN'T write that! - 14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM 971 Views
Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:" - 17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM 1127 Views
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But Shielding is also relative. - 27/12/2011 09:35:11 PM 2231 Views
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