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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM
With the full memories of LTT, after the fashion he is a master of time travel.


Well, that's not really time travel. Like a historian or an archaeologist, Rand only knows from the past from his source. And a single individual's eyewitness account, at that :P.

As to the main point, however, I of course agree that Rand destroying the Aiel will likely have something more to do with the Way of the Leaf, and that the followers could justifiably be considered a remnant of a remnant that he saves, except that this is only half of the prophecy. The rest of the Aiel must be destroyed, and I do not believe leaving them to pursue the lifestyle they've followed for millennia can be counted as "destroying" them. Unless we follow it through all the way to the end of Aviendha's vision, but I cannot accept that for two reasons:

1- It means that Aviendha's vision is actually true and inevitable,

2- The prophecy clearly states that this needs to be Rand's responsibility, and I have a very hard time blaming Rand for decisions made by others after his death in stubborn pursuit of a lifestyle they chose long before his birth. Rand's actions may be responsible for the circumstances that lead his children to make that decision, but Rand is shaping the entire world around him, there's unlikely to be any event in the future that cannot somehow be connected to Rand's actions, if only because Rand is probably responsible for the continued existence of the world that makes that 'future' possible anyway.

Rand's epiphany was about being less controlling of everybody's life and allowing them to make the right choices of their own volition, I cannot find a way to make this consistent with blaming Rand for the destruction of the Aiel dozens of generations after his death just because he created a world that bored the Aiel.

Which, to return to my original point, leaves that prophecy of "destruction of the Aiel" unaccounted for, either in the present or in Aviendha's vision, and therefore conclude that Aviendha's vision cannot happen.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1802 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 813 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 762 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 776 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 697 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 773 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 888 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 378 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 787 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 967 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 746 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 743 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 675 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 709 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 958 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 648 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 640 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 577 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 648 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 758 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 679 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 796 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 754 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 775 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 596 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 551 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 739 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 572 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 691 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 592 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 617 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 796 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 573 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 576 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 660 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 655 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 610 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 588 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 774 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 626 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 700 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 727 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 602 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 674 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 603 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 744 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 558 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 568 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 550 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 712 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 495 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 738 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 806 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 695 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 339 Views

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