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Of course, but the point of my example was... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM
... that without some manner of standards, anything can be justified 'indirectly'. For example, you say that Rand forcing peace between the Seanchan and the rest of the world, leading to the Aiel being bored, leading to the Aiel waging a war against the Seanchan they cannot win, leading to their destruction as a people after thousands of years, is sufficient justification for attributing the destruction of the Aiel to Rand.

I say it is not. These are not Prophecies of things that will happen, they are specifically prophecies about what Rand will do, and I require a more direct connection between Rand's actions and the end result.

It also sort of misses the point of the prophecy. In Aviendha's vision, the Aiel cause their own destruction because they were bored. They are a people for whom survival has always been a struggle and war has always been a fact of life. Now they are united, no longer fighting with other clans, and living in peace on lands that are, to them, excessively abundant. The problems of Aviendha's vision are thus these:

1- The Aiel have no purpose beyond fighting.
2- The Aiel are too numerous.

That second problem is the important one here. It is actually the inverse of the Rhuidean prophecy, which states that Rand will destroy the Aiel except for a remnant of a remnant which he shall save. Aviendha's vision contains instead a future where the Aiel destroy themselves because Rand saved more than a remnant.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 2292 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 1298 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 1260 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 1244 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 1190 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 1279 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1547 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 627 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 1344 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1704 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 1232 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 1227 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 1167 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 1308 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1521 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 1211 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 1121 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 1047 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 1171 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 1299 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 1205 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 1315 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 1294 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 1307 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 1101 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 969 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 1199 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 1094 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 1241 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 1116 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 1119 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 1311 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 1052 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 1105 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 1158 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 1154 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 1127 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 1080 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 1250 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 1148 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 1209 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 1220 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 1109 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 1158 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 1132 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 1329 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 1044 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 1084 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 1020 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 1202 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 979 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 1270 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 1330 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 1209 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 597 Views

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