Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
DomA Send a noteboard - 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM
Also their connection with the Amayar whose "Water Way" lead to a different sort of mass suicide.
I thought of this too.
We know another purpose this event had (beside showing "the balance" effect surrounding the Cleansing.. its price, so to speak). The Amayar made one of the choices that would be before Rand at the end (kill himself to put an end to his suffering and avoid the LB, destroy Creation to put an end to it all, or become body and soul the Creator's Champion). Of course, the Amayar also replicated even more LTT's choice after his failure, and his Kinslaying beforehand. That's primarly what RJ meant to echo I guess... The taint brought the Kinslaying and LTT's suicide to escape in death his mission and from his suffering, the Amayar slayed their kin and committed suicide as saidin was getting cleansed.
Only RJ knew what sort of rebirth awaited them for what they've done though... there really seems to be payback in WOT - several characters have been "punished" or "rewarded" ironically by the Wheel for their actions/decisions (Elaida becoming a damane not the least,etc.), which hints at a mechanism not very far from the notion of karma being in place.
But then... the Amayar/Da'shain/Tuatha'an "religion" makes them awfully passive. It's a lot about surrendering free will and letting the Wheel weave you as it wills, like water in the sea, like a leaf on the wind (there's also big remnants of this in the Aiel culture... life is but a dream you must awake from (so being an eternal soul in limbo between lives is "reality"

It's more than just idle thoughts, because I'm wondering if the Aiel/Tinkers (there's an awful big lot of them - a remnant of a remnant means a huge lot of people dying...) have not been similarly chosen by the Wheel to be a sacrificial lamb to balance the closing of the Bore. It's a very strange coincidence that two identified da'shain branches of three have to disappear from the Pattern, one when the Taint was undone, one likely when the Bore will be closed. If we follow that logic of "balance", the Breaking was the price paid to let the Wheel be able to adapt the Pattern to include the temporary sealing. Of course, this is also how ta'veren works. The Wheel need ta'veren to be able to achieve "macro changes", but there's a big lot of side effects around them to balance it out.
Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan
03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM
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The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future
03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM
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As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway.
03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM
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Depends on how one defines Aiel
04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM
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There are more than there were before.
04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM
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But when the prophesy was made there many followers
04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM
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The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM
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Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM
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Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM
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So what you're saying...
07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM
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What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel
08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM
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I never said it was.
08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM
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Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been
08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM
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No...
08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM
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You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM
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Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM
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Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM
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Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could
08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM
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You are consistently making the same mistake.
09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM
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They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel
10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM
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No. They are not.
10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM
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Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel
10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM
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You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible.
10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM
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No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel
10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM
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All of which is entirely irrelevant.
10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM
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Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant
10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM
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Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant
11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM
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That is what I just said
14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM
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What is important about that?
14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM
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The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand
14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM
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So what you're saying is...
14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM
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That's exactly it
14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM
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Good.
15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM
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He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it
15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM
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Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever.
15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM
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We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing
15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM
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Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing
17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM
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Of course, but the point of my example was...
17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM
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Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years?
18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM
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Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway.
04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM
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