Active Users:2163 Time:18/06/2026 09:24:47 AM
Thanks Dom, I'm genuinely puzzled, though... Shannow Send a noteboard - 07/05/2014 09:04:08 AM

If this entire list is indeed linear, why did RJ take such great care to imply a vastly different power gap in the books? The examples that I can pull off the top of my head are legion. Together they form a consistent picture of a top Forsaken channeler being the equivalent of between 3-5 normal Aes Sedai.

Just a random bunch of examples:

Asmodean, Rahvin etc. all emphasizing the danger of a circle of 13. If even Moiraine on her own has 80% the effective strenth of Ishamael or Lanfear, all this talk of circles of 13 is utterly absurd. The Forsaken would be in danger if even 2 average Aes Sedai were present.

Lews Therin never feeling threatened by Allana and Verin - who are both above 50% of Lanfear's strength, according to the linear list, and therefore together they significantly exceed his effective strength.

Damer Flinn plus Sarene plus Corelle EXACTLY matching Demandred's lone, unaided strength. And this in a mixed gender circle, which is stated to be more effective than a single gender one.

Loial stating that both Guare Amalasan and Roalain Darksbane each defeated 6 Sisters who tried to overcome them. Even 6 Daigian's would be about twice Lanfear's strength. And 6 average Sisters would be about 350% of Lanfear's strength. No linking loss is going to bring that down to even close to a contestable match.

A weakened, exhausted Rand breaking free from 3 Sisters, which means he had to vastly exceed their strength, since he was already cut off from the Source. These were Red sisters, trained and specially selected to capture male channelers.

Logain apparently being able to come close to breaking free from a shield held by 5 Sisters. Even Daigian on the linear scale would be one third the strength of Lanfear. Since all 5 sisters had to be stronger than Daigian, we can quite comfortably say that their combined strength must have been around 200% that of Lanfear. Even if the linking loss is massive - which certainly is not the suggestion in the text, by the way - that would still leave the shield well above Logain's strength.

For him to be break free of it, he would have to EXCEED its strength significantly, as RJ repeatedly stated in the books. A weaker person can hold a shield once it is in place. So for Logain to even stand a chance of breaking free from a shield, he has to exceed its strength significantly.

Look at the circle Arangar was facing at the Cleansing. 4 channelers. And it was a close run battle.

The Graendal/Verin battle was skewed slightly by the unknown strengths of the opposing angreal, but even so, Graendal's angreal is stated to be quite weak. And again, it was a close run thing.

Aviendha stating that Egwene was as strong as Amys and Melaine combined.

The list goes on and on.

The point is, Moiraine being at 80% the strength of Lanfear utterly makes a mockery of the carefully crafted impression RJ created of how a Forsaken level channeler matches up against a modern Sister, and makes the above examples incompatible with the strength list.

That's why I'm waiting for actual notes on the actual comparative strength between some known channelers, because it would be very interesting to see how RJ reconciles this with the text.

This message last edited by Shannow on 07/05/2014 at 09:04:36 AM
Reply to message
One Power strength: New information from RJ's notes - 01/05/2014 11:39:32 PM 4722 Views
interesting. i wonder what else they'll dig up - 01/05/2014 11:46:19 PM 2030 Views
College of Charleston library - 02/05/2014 12:21:01 AM 2121 Views
Still... really cool, thanks! *NM* - 03/05/2014 06:35:05 PM 1106 Views
Mesaana - 02/05/2014 12:26:19 AM 2127 Views
Re: Mesaana - 02/05/2014 12:37:52 AM 2195 Views
Danelle - 02/05/2014 12:59:51 AM 2031 Views
Interesting... - 02/05/2014 05:13:44 PM 2065 Views
Re: Mesaana - 26/05/2015 10:21:33 PM 1669 Views
Bringing it all together... - 02/05/2014 10:34:12 AM 2052 Views
Can't accept that, sorry... - 02/05/2014 03:17:05 PM 2130 Views
How that CAN be interpreted however, is... - 02/05/2014 03:38:38 PM 1786 Views
Sorry, no... - 02/05/2014 06:00:56 PM 1802 Views
Here are some key flaws, unfortunately... - 02/05/2014 07:56:53 PM 1664 Views
Sorry, you're mistaking the Tower for the world... - 02/05/2014 09:50:23 PM 1735 Views
Re: Sorry, you're mistaking the Tower for the world... - 02/05/2014 09:59:45 PM 1717 Views
Not totally accurate - 17/05/2015 11:15:30 PM 1645 Views
Re: Not totally accurate - 05/06/2015 03:23:08 PM 1813 Views
Re: Not totally accurate - 05/06/2015 08:22:13 PM 1638 Views
Re: Not totally accurate - 05/06/2015 09:16:51 PM 1983 Views
Re: Not totally accurate - 06/06/2015 03:48:34 PM 1619 Views
Re: How that CAN be interpreted however, is... - 02/05/2014 09:39:06 PM 1925 Views
Thanks DomA. The problem is simple.. - 02/05/2014 09:57:37 PM 1800 Views
Ahh, the Rand with Egwene and Elayne scene... - 02/05/2014 10:19:05 PM 2163 Views
Re: Thanks DomA. The problem is simple.. - 02/05/2014 10:45:12 PM 1852 Views
About that... - 02/05/2014 10:48:18 PM 1704 Views
Re: About that... - 02/05/2014 11:12:01 PM 1850 Views
Re: About that... - 17/05/2015 03:07:22 AM 1566 Views
Re: Thanks DomA. The problem is simple.. - 05/06/2015 03:16:50 PM 1849 Views
Thanks a ton for that Dom... - 02/05/2014 10:24:02 PM 1718 Views
Re: Thanks a ton for that Dom... - 02/05/2014 11:09:16 PM 1647 Views
Re: Thanks a ton for that Dom... - 02/05/2014 11:36:55 PM 1800 Views
More on Aiel learners - 03/05/2014 12:46:19 AM 1768 Views
Interesting. - 03/05/2014 02:32:23 AM 1698 Views
Re: Thanks a ton for that Dom... - 03/05/2014 01:02:23 AM 1808 Views
Oh... - 03/05/2014 02:35:08 AM 1737 Views
Re: Oh... - 03/05/2014 04:29:34 AM 2275 Views
Can you clarify something here Dom/Terez? - 07/05/2014 01:31:54 AM 1854 Views
Re: Can you clarify something here Dom/Terez? - 07/05/2014 02:59:42 AM 1950 Views
Thanks Dom, I'm genuinely puzzled, though... - 07/05/2014 09:04:08 AM 1873 Views
Some things to consider... - 07/05/2014 11:22:46 PM 1687 Views
Re: Some things to consider... - 17/05/2015 03:32:22 AM 1586 Views
Vegeta! What does the scouter say about his power level? - 02/05/2014 04:38:59 PM 1692 Views
mmm, Vegeta *NM* - 03/05/2014 08:32:36 AM 1106 Views
Sorilea and comments on the general structure of the notes - 02/05/2014 09:20:26 PM 2037 Views
Is there any reference whatsoever about strength multiples? - 02/05/2014 09:34:50 PM 1874 Views
I will let you know if I see something like that... - 02/05/2014 10:20:46 PM 1706 Views
Thanks. Because it will solve the entire riddle - 03/05/2014 11:04:31 PM 1832 Views
Re: Thanks. Because it will solve the entire riddle - 04/05/2014 06:16:52 AM 1867 Views
Interesting... - 04/05/2014 08:14:19 AM 1876 Views
Re: Interesting... - 05/05/2014 04:08:41 PM 1826 Views
LOL! - 02/05/2014 09:46:11 PM 1906 Views
More info on Sorilea - 02/05/2014 10:04:50 PM 2003 Views
This is great! - 02/05/2014 10:23:31 PM 1959 Views
In the original he might have kissed her. - 03/05/2014 12:49:53 AM 1772 Views
Having read some of his other books with sex, I've always been curious about this. - 05/05/2014 02:53:00 PM 2040 Views
Easy answer - 10/05/2014 02:49:53 PM 1765 Views
Can't argue with that! - 18/05/2014 12:31:01 AM 1898 Views
Therava/Galina - 10/05/2014 02:58:09 PM 2392 Views
Came across one of the oldest strength lists I'd seen... - 02/05/2014 10:46:29 PM 1812 Views
#10 seems weird. An Aes Sedai who never reached her full potential? - 03/05/2014 06:43:41 PM 1942 Views
Not weird. There is a good reason. - 03/05/2014 09:30:40 PM 1920 Views
One question... - 03/05/2014 09:44:35 PM 1873 Views
yes to both *NM* - 03/05/2014 10:49:29 PM 1152 Views
Suian? - 04/05/2014 04:50:32 PM 1825 Views
Does not meet the criteria I gave. *NM* - 10/05/2014 05:23:27 AM 1052 Views
Re: Not weird. There is a good reason. - 11/05/2014 05:49:31 AM 1757 Views
Not someone who was severed, burned out, or anything like that. *NM* - 11/05/2014 01:27:28 PM 1068 Views
Did she join the Aes Sedai especially early or late in life? - 11/05/2014 01:47:27 PM 1771 Views
no... - 11/05/2014 04:27:07 PM 1642 Views
Wild guess... - 11/05/2014 06:51:27 PM 1678 Views
One of Terez's criteria - 11/05/2014 09:24:57 PM 1635 Views
Hmmm... - 12/05/2014 08:51:33 AM 1662 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 13/05/2014 06:14:12 PM 1864 Views
Even I don't know what Dom is talking about. *NM* - 13/05/2014 06:24:23 PM 1045 Views
Does it have anything to do with the Sharans? - 13/05/2014 10:35:45 PM 1701 Views
no - 14/05/2014 07:52:27 AM 1741 Views
Wasn't there a Sister who was a Queen or sister to a King or something like that... - 13/05/2014 09:26:02 PM 1781 Views
Kiruna... - 13/05/2014 10:34:32 PM 1729 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 13/05/2014 10:38:05 PM 1592 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 14/05/2014 04:09:42 AM 1681 Views
Oh. Is it about using as much if the OP as you can handle? - 14/05/2014 04:37:20 AM 1756 Views
Re: Oh. Is it about using as much if the OP as you can handle? - 14/05/2014 07:55:20 AM 1721 Views
- 14/05/2014 08:14:05 AM 1644 Views
Re: Oh. Is it about using as much if the OP as you can handle? - 15/05/2014 03:59:02 AM 1794 Views
Re: Oh. Is it about using as much if the OP as you can handle? - 16/05/2014 04:06:02 PM 1658 Views
Re: Oh. Is it about using as much if the OP as you can handle? - 17/05/2014 03:01:25 AM 1758 Views
Perhaps Romanda? - 05/06/2015 04:22:31 PM 1789 Views
Re: Perhaps Romanda? - 05/06/2015 08:39:31 PM 1454 Views
Re: Wild guess... - 12/05/2014 05:33:53 AM 1793 Views
Alternatively, someone who went to live in Far Madding... - 12/05/2014 12:08:07 PM 1740 Views
That was one of my guesses... - 12/05/2014 04:57:56 PM 1515 Views
Redirect to my initial "Not weird" post. *NM* - 12/05/2014 06:59:02 PM 1059 Views
Re: Not weird. There is a good reason. - 20/05/2014 02:23:13 AM 1664 Views
Lots of no *NM* - 20/05/2014 02:30:25 AM 1082 Views
You're killing me. - 20/05/2014 02:55:21 AM 1668 Views
I won't just tell you :p But... - 20/05/2014 10:31:27 AM 1740 Views
Wild speculation - 20/05/2014 01:39:52 PM 1668 Views
Could it be Verin who always used her angreal? - 20/05/2014 02:07:30 PM 1649 Views
Hmmm - 20/05/2014 03:37:57 PM 1663 Views
Well, I'm not saying she did it to appear weaker... - 20/05/2014 03:48:10 PM 1582 Views
The buffer - 20/05/2014 04:10:58 PM 1710 Views
I doubt using an angreal means you don't progress in natural strength - 20/05/2014 06:02:00 PM 1836 Views
Both potential and actual strength can be sensed. - 20/05/2014 11:53:11 PM 1724 Views
Re: Both potential and actual strength can be sensed. - 21/05/2014 01:55:15 AM 1657 Views
Re: Both potential and actual strength can be sensed. - 22/05/2014 02:33:30 AM 1742 Views
Re: Both potential and actual strength can be sensed. - 22/05/2014 05:04:00 AM 1788 Views
So... - 22/05/2014 05:12:48 AM 1642 Views
Re: Both potential and actual strength can be sensed. - 22/05/2014 11:55:38 AM 1651 Views
Re: Both potential and actual strength can be sensed. - 24/05/2014 02:07:01 AM 1651 Views
I didn't say that - 24/05/2014 11:24:30 PM 1706 Views
Re: I didn't say that - 25/05/2014 02:32:46 PM 1725 Views
did she deliberately keep her growth slow? A small theory too - 17/05/2015 11:54:28 PM 1620 Views
Re: Not weird. There is a good reason. - 04/06/2015 05:49:42 PM 1871 Views
Re: Not weird. There is a good reason. - 04/06/2015 06:05:28 PM 1564 Views
Re: Not weird. There is a good reason. - 04/06/2015 06:23:28 PM 1834 Views
Re: Not weird. There is a good reason. - 04/06/2015 08:37:20 PM 1518 Views
I think this will be in the Encyclopedia, so... - 10/06/2015 03:06:42 PM 1651 Views
you are such a tease *NM* - 10/06/2015 09:05:10 PM 877 Views
Why doesn't someone... - 24/05/2014 11:25:51 PM 1875 Views
Favourite part about this post... - 12/05/2014 07:12:51 AM 1889 Views
With regard to #10- does it involve the Oath Rod, in some way? - 15/05/2014 02:53:45 PM 1671 Views
no *NM* - 15/05/2014 07:16:16 PM 1032 Views
Oh, I know! It's the Sea Folk Aes Sedai! - 17/05/2014 01:32:04 PM 1762 Views
Re: Oh, I know! It's the Sea Folk Aes Sedai! - 17/05/2014 08:45:59 PM 1798 Views
An Aes Sedai who was sent away from the Tower? - 17/05/2014 10:01:44 PM 1814 Views
Again, no reason to think this Aes Sedai did not channel often. *NM* - 18/05/2014 04:32:06 AM 1072 Views
Did the Aes Sedai live in relative seclusion, did she have a Warder, and did that Warder die? *NM* - 20/05/2014 06:03:04 PM 1171 Views
Too specific - 20/05/2014 11:51:25 PM 1722 Views
Re: Too specific - 21/05/2014 05:32:32 AM 1649 Views
You think THAT isn't specific? *NM* - 22/05/2014 02:41:53 AM 1072 Views
It's a fine mess that no one can work out - 09/06/2014 09:20:56 AM 1909 Views
Re: It's a fine mess that no one can work out - 04/06/2015 08:48:20 PM 1917 Views

Reply to Message