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Re: Why not? Sidious Send a noteboard - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM

You are appalled that I care about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people? I suppose I shouldn't care about the deaths of the millions of people who got killed in World War Two either?

Ugh, you're probably one of those people who cried when the Amayar died. RJ was angry that no one cared about this 'disaster' meanwhile no reader has ever even seen an Amayar and we were meant to cry for this. That's like Mars blowing up and we have to weep for a billion dead martians, but we've never even seen one.

Moving on, no, I don't claim to be devastated bu the deaths of "common" people. But those deaths do leave me angry with the Forsaken, disgusted at their evil, and aware of the greatly adverse impact they have had on Randland.
RJ gave his world a flavor and believability that I like. It makes me connect with that world. When that world is being slowly destroyed, its order overthrown, I feel angry.

But many of these 'losses' are more a result of Rand and the chaos that he brings, and not the Forsaken. Very few of the Forsaken can claim to have created real chaos. Semirhage may be the first real example, and that occurred in KoD.

And why talk only of distant losses. Do you mean to tell me that when Rand is walking through the carpet of crows, looking for bodies of maidens after Dumai's Wells, you did no feel sad? Are you telling me that Olver's story of having to bury his parents did not shoot a pang of grief through you? Did you not feel a thrill of fear when Siuan was deposed? I did, and know that the Forsaken were the cause of these events. If you did not, the person who should be appalled is me.

I said distant losses because they have no emotional value. We know Siuan and have walked alongside her - she thus has emotional value. Same with Olver and other people. Do you even care about what's going on in Shara? It's apparently 'bad' according the Aiel, but I doubt you've become angry or sad over something so distant to your heart.

Indeed I would, if he also keeps them fighting each other, infiltrates their power bases and creates war between the various factions of the Shadow. The Forsken need not die so long as they cannot even form any sort of coherent plan to defeat the Light.

Sorry but I disagree. There's a level of battle above the massive war of the Tarmon Gai'don. Without armies these people could still cause serious trouble in the world, so long as they have some sort of connection to the Dark One - which they do have.

And they have been targeted with success. What does it matter if Rand and Egwene are alive if the Forsaken's actions have made it very difficult for them to cooperate? How does it matter if Tuon and Mat are married and alive if the Forsaken created disparity of their cultures will keep them enemies in the battle-field?

Oh please... the Forsaken couldn't fail more if they tried. With Mat as the Prince of the Ravens, and the Dragon Reborn as his friend, it will be the easiest truce in the world when the whole Blight descends on them. Even the Whitecloaks want to fight alongside the Aes Sedai. Asmodean caused real trouble with the Shaido, and in the end, the Seanchan have 300 damane and the Shaido are going back to the Waste.

I'm a little confused with this statement. That Forsaken can't be killed? For killing the Light?

Oops... I meant if you can't blame the Forsaken, who can you blame for not killing the Light? It's their job.

I never thought I'd have to ask you of all people to read the books. Their primary goal is to keep themselves alive and in power, and after that, to follow the Dark One's order to spread chaos in the world and not kill Rand.

Spreading chaos is a subplot for crying out loud. The goal is to kill the Dragon and break the Wheel.

Show me where the Forsaken have made it their business to kill any of the girls and I'll agree with you that they failed.

Are you serious? What about Moghedien and her long-standing feud with Nynaeve? Lanfear wanted to kill Aviendha. Ishamael told the Black Ajah to get rid of Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene and make them damane.

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Are women really bad generals? Sidious - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1563 Views

I think that all we can conclude from this... Rand al'Thor - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 859 Views

No. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 1019 Views

Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... Shannow - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 1092 Views

Lol... too true Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 993 Views

And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 1010 Views

I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 826 Views

Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 798 Views

Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 725 Views

but you are difficult to please Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 771 Views

Re: but you are difficult to please RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 729 Views

Re: but you are difficult to please Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 727 Views

But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 724 Views

You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 813 Views

Why not? Sidious - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 778 Views

Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 667 Views

Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 788 Views

Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 732 Views

Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 707 Views

Yeah Etzel - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 786 Views

Re: Yeah nossy - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 795 Views

I thought the same in the past... Etzel - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 766 Views

Gah! Hate! nossy - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 778 Views

Ah, come on... Etzel - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 764 Views

No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet.

nossy - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 766 Views

Yeah, I can understand that!

Etzel - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 617 Views

Unless... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 819 Views

Re: Unless... Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 856 Views

Well, it's entirely hypothetical, Fanatic-Templar - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 734 Views

Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 848 Views

What about Mat and Ituralde? Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 799 Views

Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 734 Views

Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops beetnemesis - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 731 Views

Further... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 761 Views

But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 722 Views

Just one point ^_^ RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 744 Views

Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it. beetnemesis - 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM 700 Views

nope nossy - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 861 Views

Re: nope Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 951 Views

Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin NaClH2O - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1158 Views

Birgitte's not a soldier though. Darth_Katie - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 753 Views

She says she's not, but so does Mat.

nossy - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 660 Views

Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 802 Views

Right, which was what we were discussing at first. nossy - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 739 Views

Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 754 Views

true, but she does pretty good NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 797 Views

Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. Darth_Katie - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 679 Views

Egeanin or Leilwin

nossy - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 882 Views

A ship captain is like a calvary general NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 732 Views

Right. Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 734 Views

Well said. (And its short and to the point.) RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 852 Views

Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 781 Views

Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 709 Views

My opinion Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1158 Views

That's a poor excuse rAndy aL - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 684 Views

That's a poor argument Cannoli - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 908 Views

Re: That's a poor argument rAndy aL - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 768 Views

I disagree nossy - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 781 Views

Re: I disagree Cannoli - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 999 Views

Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 933 Views

Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 753 Views

Re: Oh, puh-lease. NaClH2O - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 644 Views

Re: Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3204 Views

I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" Cannoli - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 797 Views

And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph. nossy - 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM 899 Views

um nossy - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 1045 Views

Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst RabidWombat - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 848 Views

Men and football. nossy - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 771 Views

She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders. Cannoli - 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM 862 Views

It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland CupofDice - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 774 Views

My thoughts LordPerrin - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 702 Views

.... Fantasy - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 699 Views

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<quote id="28868">
<quote>You are appalled that I care about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people? I suppose I shouldn't care about the deaths of the millions of people who got killed in World War Two either?</quote>

<quote>Moving on, no, I don't claim to be devastated bu the deaths of "common" people. But those deaths do leave me angry with the Forsaken, disgusted at their evil, and aware of the greatly adverse impact they have had on Randland. 
RJ gave his world a flavor and believability that I like. It makes me connect with that world. When that world is being slowly destroyed, its order overthrown, I feel angry.</quote>

<quote>And why talk only of distant losses. Do you mean to tell me that when Rand is walking through the carpet of crows, looking for bodies of maidens after Dumai's Wells, you did no feel sad? Are you telling me that Olver's story of having to bury his parents did not shoot a pang of grief through you? Did you not feel a thrill of fear when Siuan was deposed? I did, and know that the Forsaken were the cause of these events. If you did not, the person who should be appalled is me.</quote>

<quote>Indeed I would, if he also keeps them fighting each other, infiltrates their power bases and creates war between the various factions of the Shadow. The Forsken need not die so long as they cannot even form any sort of coherent plan to defeat the Light.</quote>
Sorry but I disagree. There's a level of battle above the massive war of the Tarmon Gai'don. Without armies these people could still cause serious trouble in the world, so long as they have some sort of connection to the Dark One - which they do have.

<quote>And they have been targeted with success. What does it matter if Rand and Egwene are alive if the Forsaken's actions have made it very difficult for them to cooperate? How does it matter if Tuon and Mat are married and alive if the Forsaken created disparity of their cultures will keep them enemies in the battle-field?</quote>

<quote>I'm a little confused with this statement. That Forsaken can't be killed? For killing the Light?</quote>

Oops... I meant if you can't blame the Forsaken, who can you blame for not killing the Light? It's their job.

<quote>I never thought I'd have to ask you of all people to read the books. Their primary goal is to keep themselves alive and in power, and after that, to follow the Dark One's order to spread chaos in the world and not kill Rand. </quote>

Spreading chaos is a subplot for crying out loud. The goal is to kill the Dragon and break the Wheel.

<quote>Show me where the Forsaken have made it their business to kill any of the girls and I'll agree with you that they failed.</quote>
Are you serious? What about Moghedien and her long-standing feud with Nynaeve? Lanfear wanted to kill Aviendha. Ishamael told the Black Ajah to get rid of Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene and make them damane.
</quote>

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