I think those critiques are overblown and not based on a fair analaysis of WoT History
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 03:15:12 PM
That could be one interpretation, but in my opinion, many readers neglect the fact that during the most powerful parts of Hawkwing's reign, Aes Sedai served as governors, regional advisors and dignitaries. Aftey Ishamael damaged Hawkwing's relations with the White Tower, assisted by Bonwhin's petty mistakes and mismanagement, the Empire quickly fell into a decline.
I would point out, on the other hand, that the fact that Deane Aryman came close to achieving what she did so soon after the Tower's lowest point shows how much potential the White Tower possesses for doing good. It is clear, for example, that if Rashima Kerenmosa did not lead the forces of Light, the Trolloc Wars would have swept away all the human civilizations well before Artur Hawkwing had a chance to come to power.
I think blaming the White Tower for "holding civilization back" is ridiculous, in that the rate of technological achievement and cultural development has less to do with Aes Sedai intervention and more to do with the capacity for non-channelers to use times of peace to develop new survival methods. The White Tower, for example, did not dissuade or promote the inventions coming from Rand al'Thor's schools - those developments and achievements are actually outside of the White Tower's broader purview, which is that of a moderating influence in society.
Basically, don't blame the White Tower for the lack of research and development, blame the chaotic nature of military and political conflict, which the White Tower did many things to minimize.
Ironically, I think too much Aes Sedai involvement, such as in the Age of Legends, weakens overall technological achievement and cultural development - as soon as a schism happened in the Hall of Servants during that Age, society quickly began to fall apart as Aes Sedai held too much power and influence in too many spheres. The White Tower, on the other hand, was developed as a stopgap measure to PREVENT the deterioration of society - it was formed out of a need to consolidate the resources of the female Aes Sedai so that more would not be lost, so it is not a surprise that so little forward development occurred within the Tower.
I would point out, on the other hand, that the fact that Deane Aryman came close to achieving what she did so soon after the Tower's lowest point shows how much potential the White Tower possesses for doing good. It is clear, for example, that if Rashima Kerenmosa did not lead the forces of Light, the Trolloc Wars would have swept away all the human civilizations well before Artur Hawkwing had a chance to come to power.
I think blaming the White Tower for "holding civilization back" is ridiculous, in that the rate of technological achievement and cultural development has less to do with Aes Sedai intervention and more to do with the capacity for non-channelers to use times of peace to develop new survival methods. The White Tower, for example, did not dissuade or promote the inventions coming from Rand al'Thor's schools - those developments and achievements are actually outside of the White Tower's broader purview, which is that of a moderating influence in society.
Basically, don't blame the White Tower for the lack of research and development, blame the chaotic nature of military and political conflict, which the White Tower did many things to minimize.
Ironically, I think too much Aes Sedai involvement, such as in the Age of Legends, weakens overall technological achievement and cultural development - as soon as a schism happened in the Hall of Servants during that Age, society quickly began to fall apart as Aes Sedai held too much power and influence in too many spheres. The White Tower, on the other hand, was developed as a stopgap measure to PREVENT the deterioration of society - it was formed out of a need to consolidate the resources of the female Aes Sedai so that more would not be lost, so it is not a surprise that so little forward development occurred within the Tower.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 19/11/2009 at 04:00:19 PM
Aes Sedai - question for the WoT experts.....
17/11/2009 05:18:52 AM
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19/11/2009 12:06:02 AM
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You remember Moiraine, right? And Cadsuane? *NM*
17/11/2009 05:32:50 AM
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Cadsuane hasn't done anything and Moiraine.....you mean that person from 7 books ago?
17/11/2009 05:51:16 AM
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That's individual AS, not AS as a group. *NM*
17/11/2009 06:23:52 AM
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What use have the Andorans been then? As a nation, not individuals. *NM*
17/11/2009 06:53:35 AM
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Not much - of all plots in WOT I wish Daughter Heir had meant Heir, not Daughter of the Heir *NM*
18/11/2009 08:54:18 AM
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Short answer: nope.
17/11/2009 05:51:01 AM
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Good answer.....so why are so many stories devoted to those that are only indirectly.....
17/11/2009 05:54:10 AM
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Wonderful response, and I agree.
17/11/2009 08:18:30 PM
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rather..
18/11/2009 08:32:10 AM
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I think those critiques are overblown and not based on a fair analaysis of WoT History
18/11/2009 03:15:12 PM
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Hawkwing included AS until Ishmael got to him so that really not true.
18/11/2009 05:04:58 PM
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Re: Hawkwing included AS until Ishmael got to him so that really not true.
18/11/2009 09:16:04 PM
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Their Tower allegience was always superior to their Empire allegience but was Bonwhine
23/11/2009 02:29:57 AM
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AS exist for you to question the purpose of all self-serving organizations making grand claims
17/11/2009 09:31:24 AM
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Re: AS exist for you to question the purpose of all self-serving organizations making grand claims
17/11/2009 12:44:35 PM
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Re: Aes Sedai - question for the WoT experts.....
17/11/2009 02:36:33 PM
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Always help or contribute.....never do or lead.....
17/11/2009 04:23:04 PM
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if that internal silliness is not resolved the power of a united front will remain compromised. *NM*
17/11/2009 11:11:54 PM
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You could ask the exact same questions about the Ashaman, or the Aiel, or the SeaFolk, or any group
18/11/2009 11:49:25 AM
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SeaFolk yes, Aiel or Ashamen no.....stupid reply.....try again if you would like. *NM*
18/11/2009 05:56:54 PM
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Scored using your words
18/11/2009 06:33:31 PM
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Slow down Professor.....the AS have killed 1 Forsaken.....
18/11/2009 10:59:39 PM
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So who killed Lanfear? *NM*
18/11/2009 11:59:27 PM
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You mean Lanfear/Cyndane.....nobody.....
19/11/2009 12:04:10 AM
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They reduced her in power.
19/11/2009 12:39:17 AM
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Perhaps 1/32th of a point.....she's still almost as powerful as any other woman.....
19/11/2009 01:00:26 AM
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Have you read the books?
19/11/2009 01:39:37 AM
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I will type more slowly.....the AS have killed 1 and only 1 Forsaken.....
19/11/2009 04:00:59 AM
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Oh dear!
19/11/2009 11:51:17 AM
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Read the new book.....as Rand points out.....no balefire, no death.....
19/11/2009 03:04:44 PM
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Re: Read the new book.....as Rand points out.....no balefire, no death.....
19/11/2009 03:11:36 PM
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This is silly
19/11/2009 07:29:33 PM
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There is no misrepresentation
19/11/2009 07:45:18 PM
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Re: There is no misrepresentation
19/11/2009 07:49:29 PM
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There isn't much in this series I would call "filler" - seriously?
19/11/2009 12:11:14 AM
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You're bothering to discuss a series with three books of "filler"- seriously? *NM*
19/11/2009 01:34:43 AM
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It's kind of amusing to see the prima donas bow and scrape before each other while the world ends.
19/11/2009 01:37:42 PM
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