Is Graendal the only Forsaken NOT to overstate her own ability then?
Shannow Send a noteboard - 21/11/2009 01:53:28 PM
About your last sentence. Who says Graendal and Semirhage are not on the same level? Give me one quote that proves otherwise?
In fact, give me a convincing argument that even strongly SUGGESTS otherwise?
In fact, give me a convincing argument that even strongly SUGGESTS otherwise?
I was talking about Cyndane.
We don't have a single comparative quote between Graendal and Semirhage, or even between Graendal and Nynaeve, which would allow us to extrapolate to Semirhage.
Well exactly! So what's all this crap about the thematic significance of Semirhage being stronger than Cyndane. Even you admit that Semirhage is an enigma.
I just chuckled to myself at your last comment.
May I ask then, after admitting what you just did in that last paragraph, on what possible basis do you put Graendal THREE LEVELS higher than Semirhage?
Graendal is of very rare strength and therefore one of the stronger Forsaken women. Therefore she is one of the few Forsaken who exceeds Nynaeve. Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage in all probability according to Brandon. Someryn from her quotes is probably one of the six because of her quotes on her strength, but she implies that Graendal exceeds her.
So there, that's my short story on why they're separated by THREE LEVELS ... what makes you sure that Semirhage is strong in the Power except for her being respected - a fact which I find flawed in any case.
I don't understand you, Shannow. It's like you can't comprehend that someone like Semirhage might not be close to top strength in saidar. If she was as strong as Moiraine she'd still be a legendary torturer, you know. It's her craft that makes her deadly. No one has ever referred to her strength. Even Lews Therin said that her reputation as a torturer loomed so heavily that he forgot how dangerous she was otherwise. Aginor is immensely strong in saidin, but he's a weak personality and Graendal mocks him, and Demandred. I've never found strength extrapolations like this to be useful.
I admit freely that Graendal could be as low as Mesaana, or indeed as high as you place her. But my point is, we have no evidence whatsoever to decide that.
You base a large part of your argument on Graendal's statement that women stronger than her were very rare. Are we to take it then that Graendal was the ONLY member of the Forsaken who did not overrate her own abilities?
Because based on the examples of the Forsaken self assessments so far, Graendal's very rare statement probably means she only bumped into 1 or 2 people EVERY DAY who exceeded her in strength.
I said that tongue in cheek, but the truth is, if Graendal's own opinion of her supposed strength is what you base your assessment on, then it certainly leaves a lot of room for questioning.
And besides, other than Moghedien, ALL of the Forsaken were of rare strength. So Graendal's quote tells us nothing really about where she lies compared to the other female Forsaken.
What I'm therefore pointing out is that your list, while it could certainly be true, is based on a heck of a lot of conjecture at this point in time.
Female Forsaken strength : a new post
- 19/11/2009 04:12:35 PM
1935 Views
Except...
- 19/11/2009 04:26:32 PM
957 Views
There's no evidence for that
- 19/11/2009 04:31:17 PM
899 Views
I agree with Sidious - we have no evidence at this time, so she should remain off the list
- 19/11/2009 04:38:31 PM
909 Views
It's common sense
- 19/11/2009 04:40:01 PM
830 Views
No, it's based on absolutely nothing
- 19/11/2009 04:50:30 PM
962 Views
If you agree that there are stronger damane than Alivia...
- 19/11/2009 05:00:05 PM
831 Views
Glad to have you back. Now for the arguments to start!
- 19/11/2009 04:29:01 PM
986 Views
Hmm...
- 19/11/2009 04:47:12 PM
988 Views
Actually, you are the one placing Lanfear immensely high, my list reduced the strength difference...
- 19/11/2009 05:05:18 PM
1076 Views
But I'm not
- 19/11/2009 05:17:05 PM
946 Views
Let me ask you this...
- 19/11/2009 10:13:12 PM
993 Views
All assumption
- 20/11/2009 04:11:20 AM
891 Views
Why introduce that concept, if it is just of academic importance?
- 20/11/2009 07:41:54 AM
815 Views
You don't know the significance of it at all
- 20/11/2009 03:14:46 PM
955 Views
Why?
- 20/11/2009 03:17:51 PM
1476 Views
Re: Why?
- 20/11/2009 04:30:50 PM
845 Views
How can you argue in such a way and still keep a straight face (presumably)...
- 20/11/2009 05:07:39 PM
841 Views
Re: How can you argue in such a way and still keep a straight face (presumably)...
- 21/11/2009 10:55:47 AM
849 Views
Is Graendal the only Forsaken NOT to overstate her own ability then?
- 21/11/2009 01:53:28 PM
968 Views
Your rankings hinge ENTIRELY on whether you have Graendal correctly placed.
- 20/11/2009 03:24:22 PM
840 Views
Yeah... entirely 
- 20/11/2009 04:33:45 PM
802 Views
- 20/11/2009 04:33:45 PM
802 Views
What ever happened to all teh info from wotmania? Especially the FAQs? *NM*
- 19/11/2009 05:01:45 PM
581 Views
Re: Female Forsaken strength : a new post
- 19/11/2009 05:39:10 PM
930 Views
Re: Female Forsaken strength : a new post -- What about Dexterity??
- 19/11/2009 06:44:31 PM
925 Views
Seems good, except I'd bunch up the upper levels and place Nynaeve a little higher. *NM*
- 19/11/2009 09:46:16 PM
471 Views
Too many levels
- 20/11/2009 01:48:24 AM
926 Views
21 levels is largely a myth
- 20/11/2009 04:27:27 AM
837 Views
I have to disagree for a couple of reasons.
- 20/11/2009 04:14:40 AM
962 Views
I thought of something else to support my upper limit theory on gateways
- 20/11/2009 01:53:05 PM
976 Views
Talaan is not stronger than Nynaeve
- 28/11/2009 08:27:22 PM
1058 Views
more hopefully to come
- 20/11/2009 08:15:00 PM
774 Views
Thanks KCF, that's a great question to ask.
- 20/11/2009 08:28:32 PM
1019 Views
I'm the same way. I should be studying for law school finals, but I'm distracted. *NM*
- 20/11/2009 09:45:46 PM
386 Views
I agree that Graendal is the 2nd most powerful woman Forsaken
- 29/11/2009 04:07:00 PM
779 Views