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Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM
I think I agree with you, on the whole, but the incident with Sheriam raises questions about that. She's panicked, defending herself against allegations of being Black, and answers "Of course not" to Egwene's question whether she has red hair before even realizing what the question is. She doesn't have any intent to deny that particular question, thinks she's denying something else instead, so you would think it should've been possible to say that even with the First Oath. But no, Egwene and the Hall take it as very strong evidence that she's Black, as if a sister bound to the Oaths would've been unable to give that answer under those circumstances.
^

Sheriam betrayed herself by anticipating the question and giving the wrong answer. Under the first oath, such a slip isn't possible. The first oath should have stopped her answering at all until/unless she heard the question, or else to answer differently, by a true statement (eg: Q: are your hair red? A:Of course I'm not Black Ajah or Of course, I'm not). She could not answer a question she had not heard with just "of course not" - the binder would have prevented it.
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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2254 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1452 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 1170 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 1120 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 1070 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 1133 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 519 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 1174 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 1088 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 1078 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 1032 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 1109 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 946 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 912 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 530 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 1102 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 1080 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 908 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 1017 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1119 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 1053 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 961 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 882 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 947 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 896 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 981 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 1059 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 841 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 974 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 860 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 1086 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 910 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 1200 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 1131 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 924 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 1078 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 466 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 975 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 886 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 884 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 918 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 1234 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 873 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 902 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 853 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 884 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 889 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 931 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 830 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 892 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 894 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 1091 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 823 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 829 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 948 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 1013 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 963 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 928 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 854 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 922 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 395 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 854 Views
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