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Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM
This really is a massive gap in the Oath. It's not really used in the books that way but it could be. A Sister could lie freely as long as she thought she was being sarcastic. How the person she is talking to takes it is secondary.


I mean, c'mon... here's a typical excange between a normal person and an AS (I believe there are at least two exchanges almost exactly like this in the series):

Q: "What is your name?"
A: "You may call me Alyce."

Not technically a lie, since the AS is not saying her name is Alyce, but the intent is clearly a lie.

The oaths are next to worthless. Especially since everyone in the Westlands seems to be aware that AS do this so no one ever believes them anyway.
This message last edited by BlackAdder on 07/12/2009 at 05:13:27 AM
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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2369 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1580 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 1265 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 1234 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 1178 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 1233 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 573 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 1300 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 1199 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 1198 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 1161 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 1212 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 1050 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 1016 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 617 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 1234 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 1202 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 1006 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 1136 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1226 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 1173 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 1084 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 1000 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 1067 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 1011 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 1080 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 1178 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 951 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 1094 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 962 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 1206 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 1017 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 1313 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 1238 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 1037 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 1199 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 514 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 1110 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 991 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 998 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 1047 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 1344 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 996 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 1006 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 978 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 1022 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 994 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 1051 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 937 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 1007 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 1033 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 1200 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 927 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 971 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 1081 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 1151 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 1099 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 1059 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 971 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 1059 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 442 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 959 Views
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