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That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM
Seonid's comment is made right after Perrin had just told her all of the information. Her words are absolutely true, her intent was sarcastic.

Cadsuane's words were sarcastic, with truth as the intent.

I don't refuse to see anything, it's crystal clear what the intention of all of this is ... my argument is in the way the Oath is worded... not that AS shouldn't be capable of sarcasm...

For example:

If Siuan was unable to exaggerate her situation to someone who knew damn well that it was an exaggeration. If intent was the only thing that mattered she should have been able to do this just as easily as Cadsuane did.

IMO the Oath should still prevent an AS from wording sarcasm as outright lies... she should have been forced to say this in a different way, such as "Thank you for that keen observation"


A word derives it's meaning from two or more people agreeing to what it means. In some instances that means the tone dictates the meaning as much as the basic sounds.

The sky is blue. The sky is blue! and The sky is blue? all mean different things. same words. If you change the word blue to green. Only one of them would be a lie. If we were to make a punctuation for sarcasm you would accept the indicator of tone and how it changes the meaning of the words.

Seonid's tone indicated that not only was MOST of Perrin's information INTUITIVE but that the vital information had already been shared previously. So it WAS a lie that she would not have known that information if Perrin hadn't told her. The very premise of sarcasm is to claim ignorance or need of enlightenment while making it clear that you are not ignorant or are more enlightened than the person you are speaking to. You can not have sarcasm without a lie.


IMO she was making it clear that he'd told her much the same information half a dozen time already and that she was irritated by being treated like an idiot. Most of Perrin's information was intel gotten from the Aiel sent into the same tunnel earlier in the book.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 1944 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1156 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 874 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 823 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 795 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 835 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 378 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 877 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 813 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 760 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 730 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 766 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 641 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 643 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 355 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 790 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 730 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 630 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 708 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 815 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 745 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 670 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 581 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 643 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 606 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 696 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 740 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 555 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 629 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 600 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 726 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 636 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 849 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 817 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 619 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 775 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 331 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 669 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 570 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 579 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 605 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 919 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 567 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 612 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 576 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 630 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 611 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 616 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 535 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 580 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 605 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 801 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 544 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 507 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 604 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 718 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 672 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 611 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 573 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 616 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 268 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 546 Views
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