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I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM
I think I agree with you, on the whole, but the incident with Sheriam raises questions about that. She's panicked, defending herself against allegations of being Black, and answers "Of course not" to Egwene's question whether she has red hair before even realizing what the question is. She doesn't have any intent to deny that particular question, thinks she's denying something else instead, so you would think it should've been possible to say that even with the First Oath. But no, Egwene and the Hall take it as very strong evidence that she's Black, as if a sister bound to the Oaths would've been unable to give that answer under those circumstances.


My belief is that it is perfectly possible that a non-BA sister could have succumbed to the same trick and therefore inadverdantly spoken a lie. Sure, the rebel hall took it as absolute proof of Sheriam being BA, but AS have always been very good at jumping to spurious conclusions based on flimsy or misinterpreted evidence.

Now in this case, Sheriam pretty much gave up because she knew that even if she could convince anyone that her slip-up was accidental and didn't violate the oaths, she still would have been required to re-swear on the oath rod and provide more definite proof, which she couldn't do. The gig was up regardless and she knew it.

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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2148 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1355 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 1071 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 1029 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 983 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 1033 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 475 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 1077 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 1004 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 992 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 930 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 986 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 856 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 836 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 465 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 995 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 978 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 822 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 913 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1019 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 948 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 875 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 790 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 859 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 807 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 898 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 973 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 751 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 888 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 763 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 1001 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 823 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 1117 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 1020 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 818 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 976 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 421 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 857 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 768 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 772 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 812 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 1128 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 786 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 817 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 774 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 795 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 803 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 834 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 727 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 789 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 806 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 1003 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 733 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 718 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 815 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 917 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 865 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 829 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 770 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 822 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 356 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 763 Views
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