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You're going at it upside-down. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 10/12/2009 02:33:41 AM
It took Siuan just a few days to discover she could lie. And we know the AS that Rand stilled discovered it relatively quickly too.


I actually didn't remember the Aes Sedai with Rand had discovered it at all. Could you give me the quotes or chapter where we learned that?

How many sisters must have been stilled over all the years the tower has been in existence? Hundreds? Probably thousands would be more accurate number over its entire lifespan. Is it really believable that in all those millennia and all those sisters, no one EVER studied stilling and interviewed sisters who were stilled.

I realise that this is an uncomfortable subject to most AS, but to expect that it was NEVER studied and NEVER recorded in all those years seems a bit hard for me to swallow. I have no doubt that somewhere in the towers vast libraries, there must be mention somewhere that stilling releases you from the oaths.

Verin, who knew she would have to find a way to release herself to achieve her objectives had not only a strong motivation to look for that information but also several decades of time to do so. Verin was also a brown so she should have had the skills to find out.


One of your problems here is that you are presupposing the existence of information that we have been clearly told doesn't exist based solely on your personal incredulity. The information contained withing the White Tower is not dependent on your ability to believe it or not.

The other problem is that you are assuming that from a vague question, one specific and obscure information is easy to obtain. For example, my shirt is black. take this as the conclusion that you wish to arrive to.

If you were searching for properties or qualities of my shirt, this conclusion is fairly easy to reach. However, if you are looking for something black, then it's incredibly unlikely that you would end up with my shirt, when there are so many other possibilities of black objects.

Back to Verin, this means that if she were looking into the consequences of Stilling, then it is quite reasonable to believe that she would have discovered that it removes the Oaths. However, this wasn't what she was searching for. Instead, she sought a way to remove the Oaths. There is no more reason to look at Stilling for the solution than immersion in cold water or dancing naked on the full moon. There is less, in fact, because its consequences are more extreme.

And thats even ignoring the fact that the sisters with Rand (who Verin had close contact with) WERE released and did not try to hide it. To believe that Verin did not know or could not have found out is just plain silly.

Even before the healing was discovered, stilling would have been a better way to release herself than drinking poison. It would have killed her eventually yes, but she would have had time to assist in the capture of the BA and guarantee that the job was done well before she died. Now that the stilling can be healed there is no rational reason that Verin should not have sought that route with all her efforts.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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I finished tGS last night... and really had to come back to you all. Phelix - 09/12/2009 02:11:05 AM 1423 Views
You bring up some good points BlackAdder - 09/12/2009 03:20:37 AM 891 Views
What if Verin really WAS Black? Lord Haart - 09/12/2009 03:32:07 PM 705 Views
Pretty much agree with you. Great Lord of Chaos - 09/12/2009 03:21:08 AM 678 Views
Hey, long time no see. Glad you're back! *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2009 03:28:50 AM 365 Views
Good to see you too, F-T. *NM* Phelix - 17/12/2009 09:58:26 PM 245 Views
Silly Verin! She did not need to die. Datakim - 09/12/2009 03:53:23 AM 769 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. TheUltimateReality - 09/12/2009 06:11:02 AM 664 Views
And does she know that Stilling breaks the Oaths? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2009 06:16:54 AM 294 Views
She should. Some of the Aes Sedai who swore to Rand had been Stilled and then Restored by Flinn. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/12/2009 03:18:10 PM 630 Views
Then, wouldn't the BA/Shadow just kill her off? I think it'd be kind of obvious what she did. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 09/12/2009 03:23:05 PM 448 Views
I think that's beyond the BA's capabilities. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/12/2009 03:48:03 PM 514 Views
Doesn't mean they experimented with it. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2009 08:48:23 PM 576 Views
Rebels had no reason to research a way to break the oaths. Verin did. Datakim - 10/12/2009 02:00:21 AM 624 Views
You're going at it upside-down. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2009 02:33:41 AM 563 Views
Verin should have figured it out Datakim - 10/12/2009 03:03:14 AM 566 Views
Why? Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2009 04:15:45 AM 574 Views
I was just rereading that section yesterday.... Light in the Night - 10/12/2009 10:52:23 AM 740 Views
It all seems intuitively obvious to me! Datakim - 10/12/2009 07:58:46 PM 696 Views
Will you please look at your argument? Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2009 09:40:42 PM 636 Views
Re: It all seems intuitively obvious to me! Light in the Night - 11/12/2009 07:38:17 AM 632 Views
The damn Oath Rod! Datakim - 12/12/2009 01:32:47 AM 783 Views
Just having motivation is not enough redhand - 11/12/2009 03:52:40 PM 653 Views
Agreed, you also need a working brain. Where did Verin's go? Datakim - 12/12/2009 12:54:17 AM 477 Views
I don't think those would work rAndy aL - 09/12/2009 07:03:38 AM 631 Views
She should and could have found a better way. Datakim - 09/12/2009 07:41:28 AM 609 Views
I agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/12/2009 03:16:27 PM 501 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. rAndy aL - 10/12/2009 12:13:40 AM 582 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. Datakim - 10/12/2009 02:30:14 AM 555 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. Gerbeaud - 09/12/2009 08:44:31 PM 655 Views
There is also this small problem of Tower Law redhand - 10/12/2009 08:24:55 AM 472 Views
I always thought Masema was an irritating distraction and was glad he was killed quickly. Tom - 09/12/2009 03:53:44 AM 625 Views
Yes, Masema was a bore. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/12/2009 03:13:40 PM 629 Views
Re: I always thought Masema was an irritating distraction and was glad he was killed quickly. @my - 09/12/2009 04:21:35 PM 767 Views
Agreed. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 09/12/2009 09:25:02 PM 337 Views
Sidious - 09/12/2009 04:44:10 AM 681 Views
Re: Gerbeaud - 09/12/2009 08:13:24 PM 652 Views
Hey Mark. Phelix - 17/12/2009 10:00:58 PM 582 Views
Great to see you again! vandevere - 09/12/2009 05:01:01 AM 797 Views
Yep, and Sheriam ended up losing a finger or two in the process. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/12/2009 03:49:45 PM 588 Views
Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? *NM* lord-of-shadow - 09/12/2009 06:07:08 AM 419 Views
Re: Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? TheUltimateReality - 09/12/2009 06:13:22 AM 536 Views
It's great to see you around again! Seriana Sedai - 09/12/2009 07:06:45 AM 642 Views
:'( j-whitt987 - 09/12/2009 11:29:03 PM 586 Views
Good to see you too. Phelix - 17/12/2009 10:01:57 PM 563 Views
Re: Good to see you too. Seriana Sedai - 19/12/2009 06:12:11 AM 542 Views
Hee... gotta love zoos. Phelix - 19/12/2009 06:18:35 AM 514 Views
Mine added up to many vet bills this week. Seriana Sedai - 19/12/2009 07:22:40 AM 502 Views
Eeeep! Bills are not good! Phelix - 19/12/2009 07:24:36 AM 525 Views
Seriana Sedai - 20/12/2009 06:46:38 AM 567 Views
LMAO! Phelix - 20/12/2009 08:25:02 AM 409 Views
Seriana Sedai - 21/12/2009 07:41:18 AM 519 Views
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