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Verin should have figured it out Datakim Send a noteboard - 10/12/2009 03:03:14 AM

I actually didn't remember the Aes Sedai with Rand had discovered it at all. Could you give me the quotes or chapter where we learned that?


I seem to recall that it was in a letter sent by one of the sisters to the head of the red ajah. Tsutama I think.


One of your problems here is that you are presupposing the existence of information that we have been clearly told doesn't exist based solely on your personal incredulity. The information contained withing the White Tower is not dependent on your ability to believe it or not.


We have neither been told or not told whether this information exists or not. Just because some random rebels don't know about it does not mean it is not written down somewhere. My assumption was that it would be based on the lifespan of the tower and the number of stilled sisters.

I cannot deny that it IS an assumption but it seemed reasonable enough to me that it would be discovered and recorded considering that it IS rather obvious.

All it would take is for one average brown to be accidentally stilled, to leave the tower, to discover afterwards that she can lie and send a letter to her former ajah explaining that bit of new knowledge. At which point the knowledge would be written down and stored for good. There must have been lots of sisters like that in the millennia the tower has been around.


Back to Verin, this means that if she were looking into the consequences of Stilling, then it is quite reasonable to believe that she would have discovered that it removes the Oaths. However, this wasn't what she was searching for. Instead, she sought a way to remove the Oaths. There is no more reason to look at Stilling for the solution than immersion in cold water or dancing naked on the full moon. There is less, in fact, because its consequences are more extreme.


I don't know if it is that unlikely. For example, we know from Moiraines PoV in New Spring that taking the oaths feels like it presses on your skin. This is shown again when the BA hunters release and retake the oaths. As a BA, Verin had the oaths released and then took them anew. It seems reasonable enough for me for her to have realised at that point that the tightening of skin/ageless look is a result of the oaths. Just because that is not common knowledge does not mean that Verin would not have realised it since she took the oaths twice.

Let us say she did, then let us say that somewhere along her life she met a stilled sister and saw that the ageless face was gone. I figure she must have met atleast one sometime in her long life. She probably stilled sisters herself even. Not a big leap from there to realise that if the ageless face was gone, maybe the oaths were too. A bit of research into the subject at the tower libraries and PRESTO!

Now this is just one possible example of how Verin could have discovered it. It could be that she was simply smart enough to realise it on her own without any outside assistance. It is a well known fact that the oath rod works only on channelers so its not a big leap from there for Verin to wonder what would happen if she stopped being a channeler by being stilled for instance. A bit of research in the libraries and there we go. Most people don't have any reason to think about the oaths overly much after they are taken. But for Verin, the oath rod and oaths would pretty much have been the most important thing to research.

70 years is a long time. A very long time. Longer than the total lifespan of most people. And all this time, Verin would have known that the success of all her work and efforts would depend on being able to break free of the BA oath. Is it really rational that given all that time, the brilliant brown Verin would not he discovered this. I don't think so.
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I finished tGS last night... and really had to come back to you all. - 09/12/2009 02:11:05 AM 1423 Views
You bring up some good points - 09/12/2009 03:20:37 AM 891 Views
What if Verin really WAS Black? - 09/12/2009 03:32:07 PM 706 Views
Pretty much agree with you. - 09/12/2009 03:21:08 AM 678 Views
Hey, long time no see. Glad you're back! *NM* - 09/12/2009 03:28:50 AM 366 Views
Good to see you too, F-T. *NM* - 17/12/2009 09:58:26 PM 245 Views
Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 03:53:23 AM 769 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 06:11:02 AM 664 Views
And does she know that Stilling breaks the Oaths? *NM* - 09/12/2009 06:16:54 AM 294 Views
She should. Some of the Aes Sedai who swore to Rand had been Stilled and then Restored by Flinn. - 09/12/2009 03:18:10 PM 630 Views
Then, wouldn't the BA/Shadow just kill her off? I think it'd be kind of obvious what she did. *NM* - 09/12/2009 03:23:05 PM 448 Views
I think that's beyond the BA's capabilities. - 09/12/2009 03:48:03 PM 514 Views
Doesn't mean they experimented with it. - 09/12/2009 08:48:23 PM 576 Views
Rebels had no reason to research a way to break the oaths. Verin did. - 10/12/2009 02:00:21 AM 625 Views
You're going at it upside-down. - 10/12/2009 02:33:41 AM 563 Views
Verin should have figured it out - 10/12/2009 03:03:14 AM 567 Views
Why? - 10/12/2009 04:15:45 AM 574 Views
I was just rereading that section yesterday.... - 10/12/2009 10:52:23 AM 741 Views
It all seems intuitively obvious to me! - 10/12/2009 07:58:46 PM 696 Views
Will you please look at your argument? - 10/12/2009 09:40:42 PM 636 Views
Re: It all seems intuitively obvious to me! - 11/12/2009 07:38:17 AM 632 Views
The damn Oath Rod! - 12/12/2009 01:32:47 AM 783 Views
Just having motivation is not enough - 11/12/2009 03:52:40 PM 654 Views
Agreed, you also need a working brain. Where did Verin's go? - 12/12/2009 12:54:17 AM 477 Views
I don't think those would work - 09/12/2009 07:03:38 AM 631 Views
She should and could have found a better way. - 09/12/2009 07:41:28 AM 609 Views
I agree. - 09/12/2009 03:16:27 PM 501 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. - 10/12/2009 12:13:40 AM 583 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. - 10/12/2009 02:30:14 AM 556 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 08:44:31 PM 656 Views
There is also this small problem of Tower Law - 10/12/2009 08:24:55 AM 472 Views
I always thought Masema was an irritating distraction and was glad he was killed quickly. - 09/12/2009 03:53:44 AM 625 Views
Yes, Masema was a bore. - 09/12/2009 03:13:40 PM 629 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 09/12/2009 09:25:02 PM 337 Views
- 09/12/2009 04:44:10 AM 681 Views
Re: - 09/12/2009 08:13:24 PM 653 Views
Hey Mark. - 17/12/2009 10:00:58 PM 582 Views
Great to see you again! - 09/12/2009 05:01:01 AM 797 Views
Yep, and Sheriam ended up losing a finger or two in the process. - 09/12/2009 03:49:45 PM 589 Views
Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? *NM* - 09/12/2009 06:07:08 AM 419 Views
Re: Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? - 09/12/2009 06:13:22 AM 536 Views
It's great to see you around again! - 09/12/2009 07:06:45 AM 642 Views
:'( - 09/12/2009 11:29:03 PM 587 Views
Good to see you too. - 17/12/2009 10:01:57 PM 564 Views
Re: Good to see you too. - 19/12/2009 06:12:11 AM 542 Views
Hee... gotta love zoos. - 19/12/2009 06:18:35 AM 514 Views
Mine added up to many vet bills this week. - 19/12/2009 07:22:40 AM 503 Views
Eeeep! Bills are not good! - 19/12/2009 07:24:36 AM 525 Views
- 20/12/2009 06:46:38 AM 567 Views
LMAO! - 20/12/2009 08:25:02 AM 410 Views
- 21/12/2009 07:41:18 AM 520 Views

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