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Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Shannow Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
I'm basing my replies and overall agreement off of the series as a whole and the statements taken as a single body of indicators:

I would say that Nynaeve is simultaneously one of the most powerful and dextruos possible female channelers, but is so undeveloped in overall skill that she only uses a bare fraction of her potential. In TGS, Min notices that Aes Sedai are so good at humiliating people because they rarely do it out of emotional reasons but just statements of fact, so when Cadsuane says that Nynaeve has proven she can be of some use, it burns Nynaeve so much because Cadsuane was right - Nynaeve, for most of the series, had been willfully ignoring anything Power-related except for Healing...she had been keeping herself ignorant and near useless. She's recently started taking herself to her limits of her own volition, without the antagonism of a Moghedien to spur her own, and thus we get moments like that in WH, KoD and her detective work in TGS. It is fitting that she seems to come back to her traits as a Wisdom with new strengths while working on her own weaknesses.

I think that Aviendha, Egwene and Elayne together are powerful enough to match Rand at full strength. I think they form a rough 'holy trinity'/3 phases of Goddess-hood: Aviendha - the independent Huntress, Elayne - the mother, Egwene - the priestess or wisewoman.

To that degree, any two of those three women Linked could probably overwhelm Nynaeve. I think the only reason Aviendha and Egwene failed against Lanfear, for example, was because Aviendha was not at her full potential, and it wasn't clear if both had Linked before, in my interpretation of the events which were told from Rand's POV, Lanfear Shielded and held them with Air.

The main conclusion I draw, though, has more to do with a tension between what the author wanted strength in the Power to reflect and how it has appeared in the series. It seems to me that there is a certain strength level where you are strong enough to be a threat, no matter who you face, and I believe Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha are exactly at this boundary.


Moghedien is by far the weakest of the Forsaken. And yet Egwene admits that she would have no chance of standing against Moghedien.

So there's a big gap between Egwene at full strength and Moghedien. In contrast, Nynaeve is already at Moghedien's level despite the fact that she has a significant amount of development still to go through.

So if Egwene has no chance against Moghedien, she will be absolutely no threat whatsover to the likes of Semirhage or Mesaana or Graendal.

Remember the bonfire vs. candle comparison between Nynaeve's potential and that of Egwene.

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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 11097 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 2140 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1980 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1777 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1856 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1431 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 2101 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1775 Views
Indeed, and not only that - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1447 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1500 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 916 Views
why? - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1570 Views
Re: why? - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1623 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1590 Views
and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1532 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1382 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1446 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1597 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1381 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 1261 Views
Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 1276 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1350 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1635 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1556 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1532 Views
Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1411 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1383 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 877 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1494 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1500 Views
the obvious answer - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1366 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1382 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1337 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1542 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1619 Views
I think all the main characters were forced - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1484 Views
agreed! - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1391 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1436 Views
What? Where? *NM* - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1450 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1419 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1377 Views
Don't links amplify stength? - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1324 Views
The opposite, actually. - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1416 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1566 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1470 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 811 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1577 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1498 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1702 Views
uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1561 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1431 Views
yup *NM* - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 746 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1507 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1698 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1445 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1462 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1411 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1411 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1362 Views
agreed - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1337 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 831 Views
I'll check *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 761 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1448 Views
No people just interpret things differently - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 1270 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 1214 Views
You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1326 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1319 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1355 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1349 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 1241 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 1295 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 1251 Views
I cannot. That's the point... - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1321 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1328 Views
Sorry, but no... - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1360 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1824 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1321 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 1246 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 1253 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1317 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 1239 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 1203 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 1309 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1321 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 1215 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1461 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1368 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1430 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1391 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1363 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 1255 Views
Explain one thing to me... - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1321 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 709 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 1261 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1294 Views
Can you provide the quote? - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 1206 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1403 Views
which is also suspect - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1299 Views
No it's not - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1259 Views
we're in agreement - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 1237 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1296 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 1256 Views
I don't think it's a lie - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1320 Views
Agreed - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 1281 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 1276 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 1230 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1294 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1353 Views
I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1349 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1364 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1322 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1358 Views
Why are you entertaining this? - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1288 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1301 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1332 Views
of course it's about skill - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1343 Views
Not it isn't! - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1387 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1441 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1546 Views

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