Since we are talking effective strength, it means strength and skill are already factored into the equation. Therefore, you are leaving an incredibly small gap between Lews Therin and the top 6 Forsaken.
To me the top 6 Forsaken might have approached Lews Therin's strength level - on the respective male and female contexts - but Lews Therin has unique skill in the Power - with only Demandred among the top strength channelers who comes close to matching Lews Therin's skill.
In other words, what I'm saying is that Lanfear may be 100 on the female strength list - corresponding to Lews Therin's 100 on the male list. But while Lews Therin is also a 100 on the male dexterity list - which is a freakishly rare occurence - no one on the female side has 100 female strength and 100 female dexterity.
So Lanfear might be a 100 in terms of female strength, but only an 80 or 75 in terms of female dexterity. In contrast, Demandred is a 95 both in male strength and male dexterity.
This unique combination of strength and dexterity is what gives Lews Therin his edge in battle against channelers who are just a hair below him in strength. This is what makes him so lethal. And what made him receive such acclaim, amongst other things.
So what I'm saying is that while Lanfear is off the charts in terms of female strength, there is nothing that suggests she is also off the charts in terms of female dexterity.
To me the top 6 Forsaken might have approached Lews Therin's strength level - on the respective male and female contexts - but Lews Therin has unique skill in the Power - with only Demandred among the top strength channelers who comes close to matching Lews Therin's skill.
In other words, what I'm saying is that Lanfear may be 100 on the female strength list - corresponding to Lews Therin's 100 on the male list. But while Lews Therin is also a 100 on the male dexterity list - which is a freakishly rare occurence - no one on the female side has 100 female strength and 100 female dexterity.
So Lanfear might be a 100 in terms of female strength, but only an 80 or 75 in terms of female dexterity. In contrast, Demandred is a 95 both in male strength and male dexterity.
This unique combination of strength and dexterity is what gives Lews Therin his edge in battle against channelers who are just a hair below him in strength. This is what makes him so lethal. And what made him receive such acclaim, amongst other things.
So what I'm saying is that while Lanfear is off the charts in terms of female strength, there is nothing that suggests she is also off the charts in terms of female dexterity.
I don't think Lews Therin was all that special. Lanfear said he was 'as strong as any', and I think that's a good description. He had maximum strength in saidin and he was very skilled with the One Power. A lot of his acclaim came from him being ta'veren.
Many of the Forsaken are absolute matches for him, and even he acknowledges it. I think any of the six top Forsaken certainly, and perhaps Aginor, Be'lal and Rahvin too. I think most of the time he would win against them, but he could also lose. We know that he had tactics to defeat Lanfear, Sammael and Rahvin, and he had no idea how to go after Graendal. Each Forsaken was special at something, and the same with Lews Therin.
I don't think Lanfear was some kind of freak in dexterity. I merely think that men can never equal women in that domain and this all of the females are probably close to or more dextrous than him. Same with males and raw strength. Dexterity is a natural thing - it isn't learned. Women are just better at wielding the Power, and men are stronger.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM
10816 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
- 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM
1983 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
- 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM
1916 Views
Fair enough but the problem is...
- 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM
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Re: Fair enough but the problem is...
- 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM
1379 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM
2030 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
- 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM
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Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
- 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM
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Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM
887 Views
why?
- 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM
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Re: why?
- 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM
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I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point
- 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM
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and yet RJ does
- 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
- 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
- 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM
1394 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM
1543 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM
1313 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM
1207 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM
1509 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
1469 Views
Let's work with your figures...
- 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM
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Re: Let's work with your figures...
- 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
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You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
- 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
- 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
- 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM
1284 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve
- 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM
1469 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block.
- 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM
1571 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential
- 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM
1372 Views
What? Where? *NM*
- 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM
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I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books
- 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM
1367 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
- 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM
1245 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
- 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM
1458 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
- 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM
1514 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai...
- 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM
1558 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
- 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM
1405 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM
1520 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
1643 Views
uhm.... yes she knows
- 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM
1645 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him
- 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM
1394 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai.
- 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM
1397 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that?
- 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM
1305 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was.
- 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM
1230 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger
- 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM
1273 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
- 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM
1266 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
- 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM
1315 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM*
- 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM
781 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use...
- 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM
1404 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM
1155 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger
*NM*
- 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
699 Views
*NM*
- 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
699 Views
You also forget something.
- 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM
1267 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said...
- 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM
1283 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said...
- 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM
1182 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai".
- 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM
1234 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM*
- 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM
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I cannot. That's the point...
- 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM
1250 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15...
- 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM
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Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM*
- 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM
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In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
- 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
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Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
- 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM
1260 Views
What do you mean, relative scale?
- 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM
1184 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me
- 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM
1262 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range...
- 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM
1159 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative
- 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM
1356 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM
1306 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM
1371 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM
1328 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence...
- 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM
1312 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate...
- 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM
1203 Views
Explain one thing to me...
- 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM
1238 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM*
- 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM
682 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote.
- 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM
1197 Views
which is also suspect
- 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM
1252 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then.
- 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM
1247 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM
1212 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM
1175 Views
I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
1297 Views
Re: I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM
1271 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
- 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM
1296 Views
Why are you entertaining this?
- 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM
1235 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM*
- 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM
708 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength.
- 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM
1257 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
- 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM
1252 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill
- 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM
1279 Views
of course it's about skill
- 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM
1271 Views
Not it isn't!
- 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
1293 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam
- 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM
1209 Views
