Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
I agree that the bottom rung of AS are vastly weaker than the top tiers. I just think the main characters in the series are much closer to the top than to the bottom.
Nynaeve is in the top 1% of all women in strength, I'd even postulate that the female forsaken could all be in the top 10% with very little difference in total strength... I won't claim I think that's a fact, there's enough evidence to show that there could be as much as a 15% spread if you include Moghedien.
If there was all that much difference between Lanfear, Graendal and Mesaana it would have been noted by the BA women who have felt their strength. Sheriam only notes that there is a "very strong" woman outside of her tent, but she doesn't know which woman it is so IMO their strengths are close enough to be difficult to judge between them. If Mesaana was 20% lower than Graendal Sheriam would realize which FS was standing outside. Likewise, Alviarin notes that Graendal and Lanfear both allowed her to feel their strength, but rather than postulate that Mesaana must be weaker, she immediately jumps to Mesaana is posing as an AS.
Elayne's potential is probably about 25% weaker than this level (90), which puts her around a 65... Cadsuane another 15% below that would make her about a 55, Moiraine 15% below that makes her about a 45... then the smaller levels between AS start, Sheriam could be a 40 (10% less than Moiraine)... but by the time you get down to the bottom level AS you are at about a 15 (Daigian could be a 10), but there.
Nynaeve is in the top 1% of all women in strength, I'd even postulate that the female forsaken could all be in the top 10% with very little difference in total strength... I won't claim I think that's a fact, there's enough evidence to show that there could be as much as a 15% spread if you include Moghedien.
If there was all that much difference between Lanfear, Graendal and Mesaana it would have been noted by the BA women who have felt their strength. Sheriam only notes that there is a "very strong" woman outside of her tent, but she doesn't know which woman it is so IMO their strengths are close enough to be difficult to judge between them. If Mesaana was 20% lower than Graendal Sheriam would realize which FS was standing outside. Likewise, Alviarin notes that Graendal and Lanfear both allowed her to feel their strength, but rather than postulate that Mesaana must be weaker, she immediately jumps to Mesaana is posing as an AS.
Elayne's potential is probably about 25% weaker than this level (90), which puts her around a 65... Cadsuane another 15% below that would make her about a 55, Moiraine 15% below that makes her about a 45... then the smaller levels between AS start, Sheriam could be a 40 (10% less than Moiraine)... but by the time you get down to the bottom level AS you are at about a 15 (Daigian could be a 10), but there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM
9487 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
- 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM
1934 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
- 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM
1870 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM
1978 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
- 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM
1650 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
- 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM
1393 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM
860 Views
why?
- 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM
1471 Views
Re: why?
- 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM
1533 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point
- 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM
1498 Views
and yet RJ does
- 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM
1435 Views
Re: and yet RJ does
- 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM
1285 Views
Re: and yet RJ does
- 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM
1348 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM
1490 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM
1256 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM
1165 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM
1466 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
1426 Views
Let's work with your figures...
- 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM
1304 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures...
- 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
1288 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM
829 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
- 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM
1390 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
- 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM
1289 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve
- 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM
1235 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve
- 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM
1428 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block.
- 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM
1531 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential
- 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM
1324 Views
What? Where? *NM*
- 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM
1361 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books
- 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM
1324 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
- 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM
1202 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
- 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM
1423 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
- 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM
1472 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai...
- 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM
1505 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
- 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM
1352 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM
1480 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
1396 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
1608 Views
uhm.... yes she knows
- 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM
1448 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
1406 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM
1599 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him
- 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM
1349 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai.
- 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM
1349 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that?
- 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM
1266 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was.
- 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM
1192 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger
- 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM
1219 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
- 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM
1218 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
- 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM
1270 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM*
- 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM
759 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use...
- 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM
1356 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM
1119 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger
*NM*
- 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
677 Views
*NM*
- 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
677 Views
You also forget something.
- 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM
1229 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said...
- 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM
1236 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said...
- 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM
1144 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai".
- 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM
1186 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM*
- 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM
1157 Views
I cannot. That's the point...
- 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM
1212 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15...
- 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM
1724 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM*
- 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM
1133 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
- 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
1156 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
- 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM
1213 Views
What do you mean, relative scale?
- 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM
1137 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me
- 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM
1222 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range...
- 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM
1118 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative
- 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM
1302 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM
1260 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM
1326 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM
1294 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence...
- 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM
1261 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate...
- 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM
1150 Views
Explain one thing to me...
- 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM
1184 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM*
- 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM
658 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote.
- 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM
1149 Views
which is also suspect
- 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM
1211 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then.
- 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM
1208 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM
1171 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM
1135 Views
I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
1254 Views
Re: I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
1269 Views
Re: I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM
1230 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
- 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM
1252 Views
Why are you entertaining this?
- 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM
1196 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM*
- 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM
684 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength.
- 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM
1211 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
- 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM
1204 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill
- 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM
1234 Views
of course it's about skill
- 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM
1216 Views
Not it isn't!
- 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
1252 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam
- 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM
1158 Views
