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except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM
BS's quotes suggest that there were only SH and Elza involved:

Q. "How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?"
A. "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her."

We don't know how, but apparently SH gave Elza this knowledge, when she was made into his tool.


That's a huge leap. We have zero evidence that SH would have any such ability! SH could have just taken his "pleasure" with her which as we saw from Mesaana, not pleasant.


And:
Q: "You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?"
A: "Shaidar Haran needs a minion to most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done."

If Graendal (or one of Moridin's pets) was there, Elza certainly wouldn't be that essential for SH to getting things done. Graendal could have done everything even better than Elza.


Why, when they had a perfectly easy minion at hand, would they risk putting another FS woman in the room with Semi... who was also being tasked with getting back in S'T's good graces?

All I'm saying is that Graendal was the source of teaching Elza the weaves and detected her Compulsion (something SH has not been able to do in the past).
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Elza's Compulsion Sidious - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 2164 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 1087 Views
I disagree Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 956 Views
except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 888 Views
Well... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1036 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 371 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 320 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 771 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 299 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 703 Views
The question is... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 716 Views
Re: The question is... darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 709 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 804 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 721 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 767 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 752 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 1105 Views
I know... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 940 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 1026 Views
That doesn't prove anything... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 961 Views
It proves enough for me ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 869 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... Sidious - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 678 Views
not really darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 708 Views
I don't understand your theory Sidious - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 680 Views
It's very simple darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 677 Views
So in other words Sidious - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 797 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct darius_sedai - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 701 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct Sidious - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 728 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 706 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer Sidious - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 755 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 716 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 730 Views
But by this logic... Etzel - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 679 Views
Yes... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 722 Views
While you are right... Etzel - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 708 Views
as we've discussed in another thread darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 1112 Views
I mean... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 727 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 747 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 677 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 319 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 932 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 960 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 787 Views
I have a hard time... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 786 Views
I agree with you Sidious - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 737 Views
and you may very well be correct darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 942 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 785 Views
Anything is possible ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 798 Views
who knows darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 760 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... Shishka - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 668 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 858 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 740 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 690 Views
Good point! Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 783 Views
Re: Good point! Shishka - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 679 Views
I agree Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 659 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 744 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 755 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM 728 Views
damn double posting darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 672 Views
As it is often the case... Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 772 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 728 Views
Well... Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 619 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 671 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 776 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 972 Views
One point darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 852 Views
Re: One point Oberonus - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 776 Views
Elza truly believes that... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 790 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 840 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. Cannoli - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 789 Views
fair enough darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 815 Views
Not quite rAndy aL - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 807 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM 319 Views
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