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As it is often the case... Etzel Send a noteboard - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM
There are basically two views concerning, which certainly both have their problems, and everyone has to decide what seems more likely to him.

You apparently believe that there is more going on, namely that Graendal was in the house (either by coincidence or by SH's orders), Delved Elza but didn't remove the Compulsion for some reason, taught Elza the important weaves to open the box, but didn't fetch the DM herself, and left the house again. It seems that there is nothing to support your view, except for your opinion that only a channeler could give Elza the knowledge about the weaves.

On the other hand, I believe that there really was only SH and Elza, as it seems to be in the book. Also all of BS's quotes about this scene only mention SH and Elza, e.g. that Elza was essential for SH, which doesn't really fit with the idea that Graendal was there as well. We know that SH and the DO can give DF gifts and change them. It doesn't seem that far-fetched to me that he could also give certain knowledge, but couldn't remove the Compulsion, which is mentioned as being quite difficult, especially because we don't know the amount of SH's powers.

However, we can't be sure, though I would say it's your job to provide evidence that Graendal was there, since this theory differs from what we see in the book.

Would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken involved (and as others said, Cyndane, Moghedien and even Mesaana are basically as likely as Graendal then). If he answers "RAFO", there might be something to your idea.
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Elza's Compulsion - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 2016 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 953 Views
I disagree - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 823 Views
except work with Semirhage! - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 753 Views
Well... - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 852 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 295 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 269 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 646 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 245 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 584 Views
The question is... - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 603 Views
Re: The question is... - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 589 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 647 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 584 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 630 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 588 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 959 Views
I know... - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 813 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 904 Views
That doesn't prove anything... - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 832 Views
It proves enough for me ... - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 740 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 555 Views
not really - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 577 Views
I don't understand your theory - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 562 Views
It's very simple - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 553 Views
So in other words - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 673 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 577 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 601 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 597 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 604 Views
But... - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 583 Views
Exactly my point - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 617 Views
But by this logic... - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 563 Views
Yes... - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 617 Views
While you are right... - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 601 Views
as we've discussed in another thread - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 990 Views
I mean... - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 601 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 635 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 558 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 266 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 821 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 846 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 656 Views
I have a hard time... - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 661 Views
I agree with you - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 594 Views
and you may very well be correct - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 803 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 665 Views
Anything is possible ... - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 675 Views
who knows - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 641 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 549 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 730 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 615 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 580 Views
Good point! - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 659 Views
Re: Good point! - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 558 Views
I agree - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 542 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 625 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 618 Views
damn double posting - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 563 Views
As it is often the case... - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 659 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 612 Views
Well... - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 509 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 549 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 656 Views
Uhhh? - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 812 Views
One point - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 745 Views
Re: One point - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 672 Views
Elza truly believes that... - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 666 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 717 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 641 Views
fair enough - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 703 Views
Not quite - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 683 Views

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