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Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM
That it doesn't kill the "Graendal was there"-theory, all the quotes rather indicate that truly just SH and Elza were involved - as it seems to be the case in the book - because only these two characters are mentioned regarding the scene. It seems especially unlikely that the Compulsion expert Graendal was apparently needed to find out that Elza was under Compulsion and to teach her the necessary weaves, but that Graendal wouldn't remove the Compulsion then or simply take the DM herself (after probably checking what weaves would actually be needed for Elza to open the box ). It's even said that Elza was "essential" for SH for getting things done (since SH is limited in affecting the physical world), though one wonders why SH couldn't use Graendal, if she was anyway already involved.

Ah, well, we will see.


No one asked if anyone else was involved, nor did we get a specific answer to how Elza learned what she learned, or what else was done to her in order to make her SH tool. For all we know it could have been a series of evenings in TAR with Moridin discussing Theology :)

This is the part of me that wishes authors didn't give out-of-book explanations like this! We all interpret those in a thousand ways too.


A possibility I think we didn't consider yet is that Elza already knew these rarely known weaves since some time before, maybe those are hidden weaves of her Ajah.


And Cadsuane and Erian and Beldeine all of the Green are nearby and likely would have recognized any Ajah secret weaves if they had been involved.

But you are correct in that we have no idea when Elza was actually taught any of this... it could have been months before for all we know.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Elza's Compulsion Sidious - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 2090 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 1010 Views
I disagree Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 891 Views
except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 813 Views
Well... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 940 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 322 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 288 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 696 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 266 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 643 Views
The question is... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 654 Views
Re: The question is... darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 647 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 720 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 643 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 691 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 642 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 1023 Views
I know... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 873 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 964 Views
That doesn't prove anything... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 893 Views
It proves enough for me ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 807 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... Sidious - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 614 Views
not really darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 648 Views
I don't understand your theory Sidious - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 621 Views
It's very simple darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 613 Views
So in other words Sidious - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 740 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct darius_sedai - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 631 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct Sidious - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 662 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 649 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer Sidious - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 688 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 650 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 669 Views
But by this logic... Etzel - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 608 Views
Yes... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 664 Views
While you are right... Etzel - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 653 Views
as we've discussed in another thread darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 1051 Views
I mean... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 653 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 692 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 614 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 288 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 871 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 892 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 720 Views
I have a hard time... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 711 Views
I agree with you Sidious - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 658 Views
and you may very well be correct darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 867 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 721 Views
Anything is possible ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 731 Views
who knows darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 694 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... Shishka - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 608 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 792 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 673 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 633 Views
Good point! Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 720 Views
Re: Good point! Shishka - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 610 Views
I agree Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 593 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 676 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 686 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM 665 Views
damn double posting darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 609 Views
As it is often the case... Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 711 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 667 Views
Well... Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 562 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 609 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 715 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 896 Views
One point darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 790 Views
Re: One point Oberonus - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 718 Views
Elza truly believes that... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 723 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 780 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. Cannoli - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 704 Views
fair enough darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 754 Views
Not quite rAndy aL - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 730 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM 287 Views
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