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This brings up a very intersting question... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that I'm more strongly weighted towards Graendal, but I edited my original before you read it, I think:

Anyway, I'm strongly in favor of Graendal, but I just thought I'd throw Moghedien out there since, given what we know of Power Levels, it would be consistent with Moghedien being seen as the weakest to get the reaction from Asmodean she would have (ie: "You?" as in disbelief and scorn mixed together. Then "No!" As he is pulled into T'A'R or balefired).


Being....Is Moghedien a Dreamer? Walking around in Tel'aran'rhiod is one thing....Dreamwalking is a total other. Can Moghedien go to the in between place (looks like a starry sky) and walk around? Can she enter another's dreams. Does she have dreams which fortell the future?

If anything...I think this is the one Dreaming-ish type ability that Lanfear had over Moghedien. We actually see that Lanfear was able to enter into Rand's dreams. She subsequently pulled him into the dreamworld, but she was able to get him and pull him in. For the life of me, I don't remember Moghedien being able to do that.

But you bring up a very good question. If someone who is dreaming into TAR , can they open up a gateway into the real world? If so, can they channel out through that gateway into the real world?

I'm going to go with "no" to both questions. We know from Moghedian's own words that the rules of what happens & what can be done in the Dreamworld are a bit different from those who dream their way there and who are there in the flesh.

So lets say that someone is there in the flesh. They open up a gateway to the real world, and attempt to toss a fireball or whatever through. Will it make it? I'm going to go with yes. Because in this instance, the channeling is as a product of the channeler's ability & the one power (which is constant through both reality & dreamworld). If they dreamed up a rock and threw it at someone through the gateway...would it make it? No. Althrough the rock is a product of a person's will, the rock itself only exists inside the dreamworld. [note: this can go into a very good debate if you want...I have a counter-example in my head]

So lets say that someone dreams into TAR . Can they open up a gateway to the real world? Don't know. We've never even seen someone in TAR make a gateway (as there is no need). To make a gateway, the channeler needs to know the place that they are (physically)....for a man...to fold the pattern & drill a hole....for a woman, to make a singularity where one place in the pattern is alike to another. Neither of those will work in the dreamworld, as TAR exists as the place between and connecting every reality. We have seen two major examples of a person entering the dreamworld in the flesh & exiting out. We have never seen a dream-self making a gateway into reality for a flesh person. I don't think that it can be done.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1624 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 680 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 871 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 538 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 825 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 580 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 538 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 365 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 630 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 588 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 792 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 585 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 796 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 597 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 668 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 363 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 547 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 595 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 504 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 575 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 622 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 530 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 750 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 651 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 495 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 346 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 478 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 344 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 626 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 924 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 696 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 838 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 642 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 787 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 789 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 679 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 660 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 391 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 523 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 646 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 686 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 636 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 632 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 581 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 604 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 591 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 644 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 565 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 325 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 689 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 517 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 307 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 655 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 584 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 756 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 625 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 764 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 620 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 638 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 562 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 566 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 637 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 513 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 793 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 716 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 622 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 663 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 658 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 668 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 597 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 536 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 518 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 627 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 558 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 750 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 515 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 596 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 549 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 654 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 752 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 736 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 595 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 334 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 629 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 620 Views

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