Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM
I still think there is a little too much padding (Which the book really doesn't need. Still, she has plotted it quite tightly.
Eh, she has to set up a few things for later books, and then just put enough red herrings to keep the resolution from being obvious... so it didn't bother me. But I see what you mean.
We get Barty Crouch in Snape's office. That is one major all-round hint. Not only does it suggest something is wrong with Crouch (while, obviously, burying that instantly in a suggestion that Crouch is there on covert business to check up on Snape), it lays the ground for the revelation that Moody is Crouch (the only time Harry looks at the map, that is the name he sees), but also that he is the one getting the gillyweed. We are even given the clue of Moody showing up just as Harry is trapped in the staircase.
Yeah. At this point I think we really have enough information to figure it out - okay, after Sirius' infodump two chapters further, anyway. Hercule Poirot would easily solve the whole thing from the information up to here.
Snape's desire to hide the fact that someone broke into his office is odd. Does it refer to something I do not know about?
It is odd... I think he just doesn't want any more attention from Moody than necessary, what with his Dark Mark and all. And with Karkarov's habit of popping in to whine.
Moody does make a faux pas, however. When he tells Snape that Dumbledore has told him to keep an eye on him. He takes it back with astonishing speed when Snape calls him on it.
True, that. Nicely weaseled out, but it's one of the very few actual errors he makes anywhere in the book...
The strongest hint of the lot, though, is Moody's indication that Snape was a death eater who walked free. Of course, the comment itself is another of those wonderful ones which are true but which hold very different meaning when you know the truth of who he is.
Yeah, there's really a ton of those when you start listing them all.
What does Moody need the map for, though? Just to avoid getting caught next time?
Pretty much. And is it just me, or is that scene rather chilling? Suppose Harry had glimpsed part of the truth here, and not managed to keep that hidden from Moody... the very least we're looking at then is a memory modification spell, worst case scenario he tries to kill or abduct Harry on the spot. It says that Moody looks at Harry for a good while and Harry thinks he's hesitating about how much to tell him. Nonsense. He's hesitating about whether Harry knows, and whether he has to go for the radical measures right then and there. That's arguably one of the most dangerous positions Harry has ever been in since he was one year old, and he doesn't even realize it, nor does Rowling make it explicit.
Also, Moody's suggestion that Harry become an Auror holds very different value on a re-read. He must have decided Harry is rather slow and so would not make too scary an opponent.
It's a moot point, isn't it? Harry will be killed by Voldemort and not live to become anything whatsoever, if the plan works. But yeah, it might be intended as a subtle mockery of Aurors - if you're genuinely that blind, why don't you join that lot, you'd fit right in.
There is of course also the hint of boomslang skin (an ingredient of polyjuice potion), which would have been a powerful clue if Harry hadn't fudged it over by thinking Snape was referring to the 2nd year.
Boomslang in English too, is it? How interesting, Rowling speaking Dutch. And indeed.
We are also told that Crouch's son was a death eater, and that clue is very well buried (hehe. pun)
It's misleading of course, because Sirius says he "saw them bury him". We don't know how much he saw, or whether he saw his face while they were burying him - we assume he does, but evidently he didn't.
And there is Harry's erroneous theory of why Crouch was so worried when he saw Winky there. Seriously, Harry is always wrong.
Yep. Sometimes quite dangerously so, as above.
For future books, the Lestranges and Avery introduced. I suppose they are relevant for this one, too.
Not really, they only break out in early OotP... the Lestranges, at least, I don't know about Avery. Unless you mean that Voldemort talks about them, yeah.
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book Four Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
16/08/2010 09:28:48 AM
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Chapters 1-3: A different beginning
16/08/2010 09:30:26 AM
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Early characters
16/08/2010 09:32:12 AM
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Re: Early characters
16/08/2010 11:02:23 AM
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Early plotting.
16/08/2010 09:32:52 AM
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Re: Early plotting.
16/08/2010 11:02:09 AM
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It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:38:14 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 11:47:16 AM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:16:16 PM
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Re: It's the things behind the scenes setting up the big plan (spoilers for this and later books)
16/08/2010 12:36:30 PM
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Re: Early plotting.
17/08/2010 01:15:43 AM
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Any other comments/observations
16/08/2010 09:33:34 AM
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Mob mentality and British euroscepticism.
16/08/2010 10:37:10 AM
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people in groups and baffling violence. And the godawful recaps
16/08/2010 11:03:09 AM
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Yeah, I agree about the recaps, they're pointless at this point. *NM*
16/08/2010 11:17:37 AM
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Good news! HP really caught on after this book and so the last books don't have a recap! *NM*
16/08/2010 03:27:24 PM
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Chapters 4-6 - The Weasleys
16/08/2010 09:33:57 AM
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Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 08:22:33 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 11:07:43 AM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:18:30 PM
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Re: Characters - a few new ones
17/08/2010 12:24:41 PM
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Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:44:19 PM
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Re: Also on the topic of Amos' talk of Cedric and Harry... (spoilers for end of book)
17/08/2010 12:47:29 PM
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Oh, I can think of a few more things that will prove relevant. But that's for tomorrow. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:51:50 PM
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And arguably another one of those fun names with a hidden meaning...
17/08/2010 07:47:43 PM
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Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 08:23:53 AM
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Re: Plotting - anything of note?
17/08/2010 11:10:22 AM
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The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:29:50 PM
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Re: The Lovegoods? This is why reading in translation can be annoying...
17/08/2010 12:38:09 PM
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I thought that might be it. Yeah, different names in the Dutch translation then. *NM*
17/08/2010 12:40:45 PM
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Any other comments/observations.
17/08/2010 08:24:20 AM
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Chapters 7-9 - The Quidditch World Cup and Death Eaters
16/08/2010 09:34:26 AM
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Characters: Ministers, Mothers, other important people.
18/08/2010 12:44:16 AM
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Plotting
18/08/2010 12:44:48 AM
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Other stuff.
18/08/2010 12:45:13 AM
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Krum Catching the Snitch
18/08/2010 02:28:58 AM
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It makes a certain amount of sense, I think...
18/08/2010 01:23:46 PM
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Clothes and other schools
18/08/2010 09:44:02 AM
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There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:37:14 PM
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Re: There's a first mention of Beauxbatons in chapter nine.
18/08/2010 01:45:58 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Back to Hogwarts and the Tri-Wizard Tournament. *NM*
16/08/2010 09:34:48 AM
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Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody. *NM*
19/08/2010 11:21:29 AM
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Re: Characters: introducing Rita Skeeter and Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody.
19/08/2010 05:23:11 PM
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Any other comments, observations or revelations? *NM*
19/08/2010 11:23:48 AM
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There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 04:23:16 PM
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Re: There was that Durmstrang reference I was waiting for.
19/08/2010 05:41:04 PM
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Chapters 13-15: First lessons, and the arrival of the foreign guests *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:09 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Neville, Moody, first impressions of Karkarov and Maxime *NM*
20/08/2010 11:49:04 AM
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Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 12:59:41 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:10:03 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:20:22 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:33:04 PM
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Re: Hagrid, Rita, Moody, Neville, Harry, Hedwig, Cedric, McGonnagall, Hermione and Madamme Maxime
20/08/2010 02:36:50 PM
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Plotting and writing. *NM*
20/08/2010 11:51:43 AM
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Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:04:01 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 01:55:29 PM
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Re: Plotplotplot (plot makes a funny noise if you say it like that).
20/08/2010 02:04:07 PM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
20/08/2010 11:52:05 AM
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Yes. Five things, actually. Magic, Snape, idiocy, apparating while presumed guilty aaand evil films.
20/08/2010 01:05:06 PM
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Trelawney, or how one can be a Seer and not even know it.
20/08/2010 01:46:09 PM
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Chapters 16-18: The Tri-Wizard Tournament begins *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:31 AM
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Characters: The Champions, Hagrid, Karkarov, and of course Rita Skeeter in person *NM*
21/08/2010 01:10:53 PM
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Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 01:50:12 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:24:02 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 04:40:39 PM
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Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:06:43 PM
- 1982 Views
Re: Karkaroff, Moody, Fleur, Krum, Ron, Hermione, Snape and Rita
21/08/2010 05:10:53 PM
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Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:31:49 PM
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Re: Oh, you're right, it is then. I thought you meant she said it to Harry.
21/08/2010 05:41:44 PM
- 1804 Views
The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:20:18 PM
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Re: The teeth comment was by far the best Snape one liner in the series.
23/08/2010 09:22:26 PM
- 1881 Views
Definitely true
23/08/2010 10:02:46 PM
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Re: Definitely true
24/08/2010 06:20:53 PM
- 2000 Views
Plotting and writing.
21/08/2010 01:12:24 PM
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plotting both for the book alone and the series as a whole
21/08/2010 01:39:10 PM
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Other comments, small details you noticed,...? *NM*
21/08/2010 01:12:53 PM
- 932 Views
House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 01:35:38 PM
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Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:55:10 PM
- 1848 Views
Re: House-elves, Hufflepuff and minds in gutter.
21/08/2010 04:59:55 PM
- 1948 Views
I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:02:47 PM
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Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:08:40 PM
- 1967 Views
I associate blancmange more with Britain than with anywhere else...
21/08/2010 05:26:17 PM
- 1804 Views
Re: I love the bouillabaisse thing.
21/08/2010 05:12:54 PM
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No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:24:50 PM
- 1638 Views
Re: No, no, the pudding and the bouillabaisse are two different things.
21/08/2010 05:39:06 PM
- 2016 Views
Hermione really comes into her own in this book.
27/08/2010 11:30:38 PM
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Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:36:20 PM
- 1729 Views
Re: Agreed, but spending really all her time with those two boys does make it easier...
27/08/2010 11:48:19 PM
- 1769 Views
Chapters 19-21: The first task and House-Elves at Hogwarts *NM*
16/08/2010 09:35:53 AM
- 932 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Moody, Dobby and Winky,...
23/08/2010 10:40:21 AM
- 1719 Views
The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:07:50 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:35:56 AM
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Re: The trio, Neville and the House-elves.
23/08/2010 11:44:08 AM
- 1999 Views
Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:19:21 AM
- 1643 Views
Re: Ron and Harry, Winky, various other thoughts.
23/08/2010 11:56:37 AM
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Plotting and writing: the first task and other events *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:20 AM
- 943 Views
Good plotting in this section
23/08/2010 11:08:50 AM
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Anything else you want to comment on? *NM*
23/08/2010 10:41:39 AM
- 903 Views
I love that there is a book called Men Who Love Dragons Too Much. *NM*
23/08/2010 11:09:15 AM
- 834 Views
Chapters 22-24: The - rather eventful - Yule Ball *NM*
16/08/2010 09:36:30 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Champions and their dates, Karkarov, Hagrid and Olympe,...
24/08/2010 11:09:33 AM
- 1909 Views
Ron and Hermione, mainly.
24/08/2010 11:47:49 AM
- 1978 Views
Makes sense.
24/08/2010 01:15:37 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 03:53:20 PM
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Re: Makes sense.
24/08/2010 05:00:59 PM
- 1798 Views
Plotting and writing: a bit of a lull in the tension, perhaps, but there's still a lot going on. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:11:49 AM
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Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 11:48:30 AM
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Re: Yule Ball, preparation and aftermath
24/08/2010 02:18:04 PM
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Whatever else you want to say about these three chapters. *NM*
24/08/2010 11:12:33 AM
- 990 Views
Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 11:49:16 AM
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Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 02:27:51 PM
- 1760 Views
Re: Gender roles, Dobby, national stereotypes, creepy magic and gobbledegook.
24/08/2010 04:15:15 PM
- 1825 Views
Ron's lasso comment is brilliant. Absolute genius.
24/08/2010 02:23:37 PM
- 1763 Views
Lasso comment?
24/08/2010 04:20:35 PM
- 1771 Views
When discussing methods to separate girls from their gang.
24/08/2010 04:27:47 PM
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Ah. Hehe. Yes.
24/08/2010 04:30:34 PM
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It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:45:34 PM
- 1919 Views
Re: It's not really a humourous pun, just a nice find by the translator.
24/08/2010 04:48:50 PM
- 1799 Views
Holy crap.
25/08/2010 02:44:57 PM
- 1719 Views
Yeah, I don't know if the Google pictures are entirely representative...
25/08/2010 03:06:25 PM
- 1854 Views
Chapters 25-27: The second task and Padfoot's return
16/08/2010 09:36:55 AM
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Characters: The Trio, Krum, Fleur, Sirius,... *NM*
25/08/2010 11:18:49 AM
- 885 Views
Snape, Percy, Hermione, Ron, Mrs Weasley and Sirius.
25/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
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I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:41:43 PM
- 1913 Views
Re: I'm a bit worried about people's reactions to Snape during these discussions
25/08/2010 05:45:30 PM
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Agreed. Snape is one of the most fascinating characters I have ever read
25/08/2010 05:57:12 PM
- 1787 Views
Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 10:54:11 AM
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Re: Fleur shows that, when push comes to shove, she has her priorities straight.
26/08/2010 11:21:59 AM
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Plotting and writing: clues, red herrings and recapitulation *NM*
25/08/2010 11:19:47 AM
- 928 Views
Merpeople and the second task.
25/08/2010 11:34:40 AM
- 1798 Views
And something else I never understood about the second task
25/08/2010 02:32:51 PM
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That's a good point, yeah...
25/08/2010 03:07:30 PM
- 1684 Views
Maybe they should have had a magical big screen projection of what was going on in the lake lol
25/08/2010 03:57:48 PM
- 1738 Views
Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:23:30 PM
- 1742 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:40:39 PM
- 1790 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
25/08/2010 05:42:52 PM
- 1691 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:09:20 AM
- 1701 Views
Re: Lots of stuff -- I may have to change my opinion of Rowling's plotting in this book.
26/08/2010 11:17:36 AM
- 1847 Views
Marauder's Map.
05/09/2010 05:27:17 AM
- 1741 Views
Other comments. *NM*
25/08/2010 11:20:11 AM
- 910 Views
Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:24:26 PM
- 1804 Views
Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:36:29 PM
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Re: Two completely unrelated things.
25/08/2010 05:42:20 PM
- 1893 Views
Chapters 28-30: Moving towards the climax *NM*
16/08/2010 09:37:22 AM
- 859 Views
Characters: The Trio, Krum, Karkarov, the Crouch family,... *NM*
26/08/2010 12:15:59 PM
- 948 Views
Madame Maxime, Crouch, Snape, Twins, Fudge and Neville
26/08/2010 02:48:04 PM
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Plotting and writing: increasing signs of danger, and revelations about the past. *NM*
26/08/2010 12:16:50 PM
- 910 Views
Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 02:50:29 PM
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Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:38:53 PM
- 1975 Views
Re: Some good plotting here, and some recurring issues.
26/08/2010 03:51:32 PM
- 1806 Views
Chapters 31-33: The third task
16/08/2010 09:38:01 AM
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Characters: The Trio, the Champions, Voldemort, Wormtail,,... *NM*
27/08/2010 01:32:11 PM
- 953 Views
Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 03:50:03 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:09:48 PM
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Re: Ron, Mrs Weasley, Madame Maxime, Wormtail, Voldemort, Quirrel
27/08/2010 05:23:14 PM
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Plotting and writing: thrilling action, but also a fair bit of infodump/flashback. *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:13 PM
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Stuff happens.
27/08/2010 03:50:33 PM
- 1704 Views
Riddle Family.
05/09/2010 05:39:29 AM
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Anything else to add? *NM*
27/08/2010 01:34:39 PM
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Chapters 34-37: The climax and the aftermath *NM*
16/08/2010 09:38:22 AM
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Characters: Well, pretty much all of them, I guess. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:04:41 AM
- 914 Views
Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Snape, Ron and Hermione
28/08/2010 11:57:25 AM
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Plotting and writing: tying up, explanations and setting up the future books. *NM*
28/08/2010 11:05:33 AM
- 899 Views
Revelations and then some
28/08/2010 12:02:36 PM
- 1737 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
28/08/2010 11:06:03 AM
- 932 Views
Two questions and one other thing.
28/08/2010 12:03:14 PM
- 1849 Views
The book as a whole: overall thoughts, comments and obversations
16/08/2010 09:39:24 AM
- 1766 Views
What do/did you think of Rowling's writing in this book?
16/08/2010 09:40:03 AM
- 1782 Views
I think she has more room to display her talent in this book.
28/08/2010 11:27:20 AM
- 1849 Views
Suggestions for the re-read.
16/08/2010 09:41:01 AM
- 1910 Views
Is it possible / easy to make the post an Announcement while it's ongoing?
17/08/2010 03:08:31 PM
- 1743 Views
When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 11:09:07 AM
- 2012 Views
Re: When should we start the next book? And at which pace?
28/08/2010 12:05:31 PM
- 1989 Views