Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
lyringlas Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM
But of course, as Jen says, it has a lot to do with the dominant mentality of the time - obviously there were people with more progressive views already, but then all of Tolkien's work feels rather conservative.
That's all I meant by my statement. His writing reflects the times, but moreso in a very conservative community. I feel like he has as many influential women in his story as there are powerful women in classical history.Luthien, Galadriel, Eowyn to history's Cleopatra, Jeanne-Antoinette Poisson, Livia Augusta, Elizabeth...I mean, the goddesses are almost nonexistent in his mythology. With how heavily influences pantheotic writing is by ancient Greece and Rome, you'd think he would have a couple of goddesses that stand out a bit; the best that can be said for most of the women (namely the goddesses, because we don't see many others) in the series is they serve as companions to powerful/influential men. Sad really.
Don't get me wrong though, I love Tolkien.
This message last edited by lyringlas on 09/04/2010 at 05:29:28 PM
The greatest King in Fantasy
- 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM
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King Arthur. Hands down.
- 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM
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I would argue with you.
- 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM
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That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable.
- 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM
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I have to agree with Dannymac
- 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM
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But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. 
- 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
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- 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
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when I read the actual book...
- 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM
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"The actual character"? Which of the countless different ones? *NM*
- 10/04/2010 12:21:00 AM
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i mean the actual character of Arthur in the actual book.
- 10/04/2010 12:51:44 AM
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There isn't an "actual book." Le Morte d'Arthur is a relatively early compilation of legends. *NM*
- 10/04/2010 03:09:40 AM
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I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur
- 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM
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My money is still on Aragorn
- 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM
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Aragorn is so awesome...
- 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM
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Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
- 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM
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Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
- 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM
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Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
- 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM
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Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
- 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM
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I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM
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If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
- 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM
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Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
- 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
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I rather liked her depiction in Rome.
- 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM
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Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
- 09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM
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Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
- 09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM
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thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion
- 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
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Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM
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That was my first assumption too, but evidently not. *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:22:39 PM
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I changed it to Livia Augusta Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
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Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
828 Views
I call bullshit
- 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
- 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
- 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM
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I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
- 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM
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He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things.
- 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM
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Doesn't have to face many things?
- 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM
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As in, there are many important aspects of being king he doesn't have to face.
- 09/04/2010 08:07:16 PM
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well technically speaking he WAS the king when he did all those things.
- 10/04/2010 12:15:26 AM
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Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
- 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM
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Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
- 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM
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I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
- 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM
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I'm going to go with a tie...
- 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM
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Rohan was a whiny hypocritical bitch who failed at the only real test of rulership he ever faced.
- 10/04/2010 02:51:34 AM
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Artur Hawkwing
- 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM
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Alexander the Great? *NM*
- 10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
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*NM*
- 10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
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AH conquered more, did better, & was not a huge d-bag. Alex would have commissioned that big statue *NM*
- 12/04/2010 03:00:39 PM
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And both managed to have their so-called "empires" crumble within a year of their death. *NM*
- 12/04/2010 06:12:20 PM
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Which just reinforces how awesome AH was - no one else could do what he did
- 13/04/2010 11:50:54 AM
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???
- 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM
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Ta'veren is not a power, it is an accomodation with what the Pattern demands of certain people
- 12/04/2010 02:56:57 PM
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What's the name of the Lemur-thing that's the King in "the penguins of madagascar"? He gets my vote! *NM*
- 14/04/2010 04:46:42 AM
838 Views