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thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
Gandalf learned pity from a single woman? See, this proves my point: she is only pitiable because she is single and without some man lovin' to make her complete. :P


I think you were joking, but for those not in the know, she has a strange gift of mercy and foresight, so she could see that when the world was created there would be things that would change and that the greatest works could be marred. She argued for the punishment and not destruction of Melkor the first time he was defeated. It turned out wrong, but it is out of pity and mercy that the world is enriched and takes on a different type of grace from that of prettiness. I'm not quite sure what sort of statement Tolkien was making with her - I tend to think she is an archetype more of a nun or Virgin Mary rather than single.

I agree with you about the gods though. The prowess in battle only becomes important when you talk about the Eldar.


I think it's understood that none of the monsters created by Melkor could stand against any of the gods. Arien, with the power to withstand great heat, and Tilion, whom loved silver, were both Maia, spirits like Gandalf/Olorin, and guided the Sun and the Moon respectively to give the world light after the Two Trees were destroyed by Ungoliant and the Silmaril stolen. When Melkor sent monsters to attack them, they couldn't even get near Arien, because she had greater power and was a fire spirit, so their weapons could not harm her - in her naked form as a fierce flame, it is possible to envision her enemies being burnt away when they tried to come too close. Tilion's charge was damaged, though, because he was less mighty, being a spirit that was a hunter from Orome's entourage - so he had to fight and could not quite protect it.

Sorry, I love "The Silmarillion" :).
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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The greatest King in Fantasy - 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM 1748 Views
King Arthur. Hands down. - 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM 1153 Views
I would argue with you. - 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM 1098 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable. - 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM 1148 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac - 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM 1137 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. - 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM 1160 Views
when I read the actual book... - 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM 1152 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur - 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM 1201 Views
My money is still on Aragorn - 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM 1258 Views
Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM 1104 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM 1078 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM 1149 Views
Hm - 09/04/2010 03:23:53 PM 1192 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM 1097 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM 1355 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM 1213 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM 1086 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM 1149 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM 1107 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM 1164 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:45:06 PM 1245 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 10/04/2010 11:14:26 AM 1258 Views
I don't know if I'd call it bad, per se. - 10/04/2010 11:37:55 AM 1331 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM 1139 Views
Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:31:42 PM 1100 Views
Re: Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:44:03 PM 1145 Views
Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but... - 09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM 1149 Views
Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but... - 09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM 1156 Views
thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion - 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM 1396 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM 1258 Views
I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM 1093 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM 1097 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM 1182 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM 1182 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM 1055 Views
Exactly. - 13/04/2010 03:08:46 AM 1160 Views
Re: Exactly. - 13/04/2010 08:54:01 AM 1235 Views
I was going to say something similar. - 09/04/2010 03:21:45 PM 1116 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:00:25 PM 1115 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:37:12 PM 1110 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things. - 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM 1414 Views
Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM 1160 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM 991 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM 1099 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 05:08:42 PM 1232 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 12/04/2010 10:55:12 AM 1098 Views
He really wasn't a king in majority of the story though - 12/04/2010 05:54:23 PM 1058 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn - 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM 1101 Views
Oh yeah I liked him a lot *NM* - 09/04/2010 04:09:59 PM 526 Views
Josua Lackhand is a great fantasy King! - 09/04/2010 05:14:39 PM 1165 Views
Arutha was never King. *NM* - 09/04/2010 07:18:30 PM 505 Views
I'm going to go with a tie... - 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM 1114 Views
Joffrey and the Stag! *NM* - 09/04/2010 09:53:56 PM 507 Views
ROFL *NM* - 09/04/2010 11:39:36 PM 477 Views
Artur Hawkwing - 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM 1221 Views
??? - 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM 1502 Views
Simba *NM* - 10/04/2010 08:40:38 AM 539 Views
Manwe - 10/04/2010 10:31:54 AM 1409 Views
Bah. He's hardly a character. *NM* - 12/04/2010 01:07:29 AM 631 Views
Arutha, the Prince of Krondor - 12/04/2010 01:06:14 AM 1168 Views
Westley - 13/04/2010 02:59:36 AM 1090 Views
Leto Atreides II - 13/04/2010 05:07:29 AM 1045 Views
I'll agree with that! *NM* - 13/04/2010 11:33:10 AM 509 Views

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