Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
Camilla Send a noteboard - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM
I've actually never discussed the books with anyone, so...I apologize. It was just a thought I had as I was reading through the books a while back. I remember the part you are citing about Gandalf talking to Eomer. I like how he deals with the Eowyn material, but she ends up settling down and having babies anyway. I've come to the side of Legolas, in all of this, and have retracted most of my sexism claim.
Everyone ends up settling down and having babies. It is called a happy ending. I remember having second thoughts when I read her "conversion" to healing and growing things rather than fighting once she accepts Faramir. But then I remembered that this is Tolkien. The problem with oversimplified grids that label something as anti-feminist if women go from fighting to tending is that it ignores in this case the underlying valuation in the whole of this literary universe. Growing and healing and tending is the supreme good. It is not necessarily tied to a simple male/female axis, and I think forcing it into that is a serious mistake in this case.
Faramir is the hero, rather than Boromir, precisely because he belongs to the "party" that Eowyn joins. Aragorn reaches his potential only once war is over and he turns to tending, growing, healing. Orcs fight, elves tend. Men are at their best when they do the latter.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The greatest King in Fantasy
- 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM
2231 Views
King Arthur. Hands down.
- 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM
1627 Views
I would argue with you.
- 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM
1572 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable.
- 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM
1616 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac
- 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM
1587 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel.
- 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
1660 Views
- 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
1660 Views
when I read the actual book...
- 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM
1607 Views
"The actual character"? Which of the countless different ones? *NM*
- 10/04/2010 12:21:00 AM
765 Views
i mean the actual character of Arthur in the actual book.
- 10/04/2010 12:51:44 AM
1706 Views
There isn't an "actual book." Le Morte d'Arthur is a relatively early compilation of legends. *NM*
- 10/04/2010 03:09:40 AM
797 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur
- 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM
1666 Views
My money is still on Aragorn
- 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM
1707 Views
Aragorn is so awesome...
- 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM
1557 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
- 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM
1528 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
- 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM
1592 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
- 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM
1534 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
- 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM
1812 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM
1644 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM
1530 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
- 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM
1664 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
- 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
1563 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome.
- 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM
1636 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM
1620 Views
Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
- 09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM
1631 Views
Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
- 09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM
1631 Views
thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion
- 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
1871 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM
1735 Views
That was my first assumption too, but evidently not. *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:22:39 PM
730 Views
I changed it to Livia Augusta
Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
806 Views
Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
806 Views
I call bullshit
- 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM
1534 Views
Re: I call bullshit
- 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM
1540 Views
Re: I call bullshit
- 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM
1632 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
- 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM
1633 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
- 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM
1506 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things.
- 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM
1857 Views
Doesn't have to face many things?
- 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM
1608 Views
As in, there are many important aspects of being king he doesn't have to face.
- 09/04/2010 08:07:16 PM
1593 Views
well technically speaking he WAS the king when he did all those things.
- 10/04/2010 12:15:26 AM
1581 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
- 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM
1457 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
- 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM
1589 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
- 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM
1557 Views
I'm going to go with a tie...
- 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM
1559 Views
Rohan was a whiny hypocritical bitch who failed at the only real test of rulership he ever faced.
- 10/04/2010 02:51:34 AM
1655 Views
Artur Hawkwing
- 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM
1727 Views
Alexander the Great?
*NM*
- 10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
763 Views
*NM*
- 10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
763 Views
AH conquered more, did better, & was not a huge d-bag. Alex would have commissioned that big statue *NM*
- 12/04/2010 03:00:39 PM
759 Views
And both managed to have their so-called "empires" crumble within a year of their death. *NM*
- 12/04/2010 06:12:20 PM
766 Views
Which just reinforces how awesome AH was - no one else could do what he did
- 13/04/2010 11:50:54 AM
1645 Views
???
- 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM
2154 Views
Ta'veren is not a power, it is an accomodation with what the Pattern demands of certain people
- 12/04/2010 02:56:57 PM
1567 Views
What's the name of the Lemur-thing that's the King in "the penguins of madagascar"? He gets my vote! *NM*
- 14/04/2010 04:46:42 AM
818 Views
