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Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. Camilla Send a noteboard - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM
I've actually never discussed the books with anyone, so...I apologize. It was just a thought I had as I was reading through the books a while back. I remember the part you are citing about Gandalf talking to Eomer. I like how he deals with the Eowyn material, but she ends up settling down and having babies anyway. I've come to the side of Legolas, in all of this, and have retracted most of my sexism claim.


Everyone ends up settling down and having babies. It is called a happy ending. I remember having second thoughts when I read her "conversion" to healing and growing things rather than fighting once she accepts Faramir. But then I remembered that this is Tolkien. The problem with oversimplified grids that label something as anti-feminist if women go from fighting to tending is that it ignores in this case the underlying valuation in the whole of this literary universe. Growing and healing and tending is the supreme good. It is not necessarily tied to a simple male/female axis, and I think forcing it into that is a serious mistake in this case.

Faramir is the hero, rather than Boromir, precisely because he belongs to the "party" that Eowyn joins. Aragorn reaches his potential only once war is over and he turns to tending, growing, healing. Orcs fight, elves tend. Men are at their best when they do the latter.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The greatest King in Fantasy - 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM 2283 Views
King Arthur. Hands down. - 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM 1671 Views
I would argue with you. - 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM 1617 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable. - 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM 1666 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac - 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM 1627 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. - 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM 1716 Views
when I read the actual book... - 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM 1645 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur - 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM 1727 Views
My money is still on Aragorn - 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM 1754 Views
Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM 1592 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM 1566 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM 1635 Views
Hm - 09/04/2010 03:23:53 PM 1703 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM 1581 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM 1861 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM 1688 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM 1583 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM 1716 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM 1612 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM 1678 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:45:06 PM 1740 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 10/04/2010 11:14:26 AM 1738 Views
I don't know if I'd call it bad, per se. - 10/04/2010 11:37:55 AM 1883 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM 1678 Views
Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:31:42 PM 1633 Views
Re: Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:44:03 PM 1628 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM 1778 Views
I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM 1579 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM 1582 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM 1677 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM 1672 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM 1560 Views
Exactly. - 13/04/2010 03:08:46 AM 1682 Views
Re: Exactly. - 13/04/2010 08:54:01 AM 1766 Views
I was going to say something similar. - 09/04/2010 03:21:45 PM 1594 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:00:25 PM 1563 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:37:12 PM 1616 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things. - 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM 1902 Views
Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM 1651 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM 1492 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM 1633 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 05:08:42 PM 1758 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 12/04/2010 10:55:12 AM 1614 Views
He really wasn't a king in majority of the story though - 12/04/2010 05:54:23 PM 1573 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn - 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM 1599 Views
Oh yeah I liked him a lot *NM* - 09/04/2010 04:09:59 PM 812 Views
Josua Lackhand is a great fantasy King! - 09/04/2010 05:14:39 PM 1661 Views
Arutha was never King. *NM* - 09/04/2010 07:18:30 PM 775 Views
I'm going to go with a tie... - 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM 1599 Views
Joffrey and the Stag! *NM* - 09/04/2010 09:53:56 PM 776 Views
ROFL *NM* - 09/04/2010 11:39:36 PM 748 Views
Artur Hawkwing - 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM 1789 Views
??? - 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM 2215 Views
Simba *NM* - 10/04/2010 08:40:38 AM 858 Views
Manwe - 10/04/2010 10:31:54 AM 2086 Views
Bah. He's hardly a character. *NM* - 12/04/2010 01:07:29 AM 934 Views
Arutha, the Prince of Krondor - 12/04/2010 01:06:14 AM 1670 Views
Westley - 13/04/2010 02:59:36 AM 1651 Views
Leto Atreides II - 13/04/2010 05:07:29 AM 1549 Views
I'll agree with that! *NM* - 13/04/2010 11:33:10 AM 783 Views

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