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Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate lyringlas Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
If "I, Claudius" and it's source material are accurate depictions of the character of Livia, she was an evil EVIL b:censored:h of epic proportions, making maybe even Cersei Lannister seem like a sweet person.



So she had her faults... she she might have killed off Julia the elder's children in order to secure succession of Tiberius and Germanicus to the throne...there may have been speculation that she killed Augustus... (coughs) Augustus needed her for her family, and eventually (once all the Juliae heirs started dying off) for her sons. He must have loved her for some reason though, because he left her everything, which was unprecedented, because noble women never owned anything, even in the early empire. Women's estates were either managed by their husbands, or by their fathers remotely (the "remotely managed" method was often implemented by Roman women to allow them to manage their own affairs under the guise of their fathers doing so...even if their fathers lived in Hallas Palestinas).

These events might have happened, but if a man did these things, it wouldn't have been looked down upon as harshly. This is similar to women in business that have stern personalities and thus are called bitches, whereas men are just called business savvy and efficient. She was an ambitious woman in the fledging Roman empire (I mean empire only in the sense that Augustus is the first "real" emperor, even though Marius, Sulla, and Julius were before him), and so any and every action she took was scrutinized and demonized to astounding proportions. Simply being out in public, and holding meetings with men directly created all sorts of misogynistic backlash from the upper crust.

She was definitely an interesting lady to study.

edits: me being a dumb ass
This message last edited by lyringlas on 09/04/2010 at 05:27:49 PM
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The greatest King in Fantasy - 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM 1749 Views
King Arthur. Hands down. - 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM 1154 Views
I would argue with you. - 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM 1098 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable. - 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM 1149 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac - 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM 1138 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. - 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM 1161 Views
when I read the actual book... - 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM 1152 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur - 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM 1201 Views
My money is still on Aragorn - 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM 1259 Views
Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM 1104 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM 1078 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM 1149 Views
Hm - 09/04/2010 03:23:53 PM 1193 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM 1098 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM 1355 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM 1214 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM 1086 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM 1149 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM 1108 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM 1164 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:45:06 PM 1245 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 10/04/2010 11:14:26 AM 1259 Views
I don't know if I'd call it bad, per se. - 10/04/2010 11:37:55 AM 1331 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM 1139 Views
Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:31:42 PM 1100 Views
Re: Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:44:03 PM 1146 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM 1258 Views
I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM 1094 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM 1098 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM 1182 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM 1183 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM 1055 Views
Exactly. - 13/04/2010 03:08:46 AM 1160 Views
Re: Exactly. - 13/04/2010 08:54:01 AM 1235 Views
I was going to say something similar. - 09/04/2010 03:21:45 PM 1117 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:00:25 PM 1116 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:37:12 PM 1110 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things. - 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM 1415 Views
Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM 1162 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM 992 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM 1099 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 05:08:42 PM 1233 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 12/04/2010 10:55:12 AM 1098 Views
He really wasn't a king in majority of the story though - 12/04/2010 05:54:23 PM 1058 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn - 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM 1101 Views
Oh yeah I liked him a lot *NM* - 09/04/2010 04:09:59 PM 526 Views
Josua Lackhand is a great fantasy King! - 09/04/2010 05:14:39 PM 1165 Views
Arutha was never King. *NM* - 09/04/2010 07:18:30 PM 505 Views
I'm going to go with a tie... - 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM 1115 Views
Joffrey and the Stag! *NM* - 09/04/2010 09:53:56 PM 508 Views
ROFL *NM* - 09/04/2010 11:39:36 PM 477 Views
Artur Hawkwing - 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM 1221 Views
??? - 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM 1503 Views
Simba *NM* - 10/04/2010 08:40:38 AM 539 Views
Manwe - 10/04/2010 10:31:54 AM 1409 Views
Bah. He's hardly a character. *NM* - 12/04/2010 01:07:29 AM 632 Views
Arutha, the Prince of Krondor - 12/04/2010 01:06:14 AM 1169 Views
Westley - 13/04/2010 02:59:36 AM 1090 Views
Leto Atreides II - 13/04/2010 05:07:29 AM 1045 Views
I'll agree with that! *NM* - 13/04/2010 11:33:10 AM 509 Views

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