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It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom Send a noteboard - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM
Of course, be careful when it's used as the beginning of a relative clause, because it's functioning as the subject of that clause but that clause, relative to the rest of the sentence, isn't the subject.

Example:

I don't like people who misuse the subjunctive.

In this case "who" is modifying the object of the sentence, but it is the subject of the clause.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 1221 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 406 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 393 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 376 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 401 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 431 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 205 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 311 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 512 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 327 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 361 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 323 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 302 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 404 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 308 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 393 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 191 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 414 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 290 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 392 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 539 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 307 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 358 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 601 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 600 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 354 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 364 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 290 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 293 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 399 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 586 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 367 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 387 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 330 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 573 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 299 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 348 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 491 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 423 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 477 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 386 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 612 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 413 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 598 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 573 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 566 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 385 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 397 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 298 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 330 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 571 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 366 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 393 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 336 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 315 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 584 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 653 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 494 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 565 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 351 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 173 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 358 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 344 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 347 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 531 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 173 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 306 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 364 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 571 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 466 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 381 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 501 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 176 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 350 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 346 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 357 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 356 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 341 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 358 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 363 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 544 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 551 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 478 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 472 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 359 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 550 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 334 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 358 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 333 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 353 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 175 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9503 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 167 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 544 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 375 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 571 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 462 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 468 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 612 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 343 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 383 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 342 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 557 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 365 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 371 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 173 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 557 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 495 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 360 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 351 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 392 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 168 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 358 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 649 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 383 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 332 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 377 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 279 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 471 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 505 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 339 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 556 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 618 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 514 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 534 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 477 Views
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