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Fair enough. Legolas Send a noteboard - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM
I imagine many languages will have similar examples of prescriptivists pushing something like that and creating chaos and confusion instead of the "improved" language use they were aiming for. The whole hen vs. hun business in Dutch comes to mind. Or our spelling reforms. *shudders*
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 1084 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 294 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 265 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 253 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 283 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 309 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 148 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 250 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 382 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 243 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 244 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 259 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 245 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 297 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 251 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 275 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 128 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 298 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 233 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 285 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 420 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 249 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 242 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 476 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 484 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 238 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 261 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 234 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 243 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 277 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 463 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 255 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 262 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 224 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 465 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 233 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 228 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 385 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 299 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 362 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 291 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 500 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 291 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 481 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 451 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 449 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 275 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 279 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 237 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 271 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 451 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 257 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 270 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 222 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 259 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 459 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 504 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 359 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 436 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 240 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 112 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 252 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 239 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 227 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 420 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 115 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 248 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 247 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 453 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 342 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 264 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 353 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 124 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 235 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 227 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 241 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 243 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 227 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 234 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 246 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 429 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 431 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 355 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 347 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 251 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 437 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 222 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 242 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 217 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 228 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 116 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9383 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 109 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 422 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 261 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 455 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 353 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 355 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 452 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 231 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 267 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 230 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 441 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 243 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 250 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 113 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 439 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 376 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 233 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 224 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 281 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 108 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 247 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 529 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 229 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 272 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 262 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 221 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 365 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 368 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 232 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 443 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 497 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 400 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 427 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 365 Views
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