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Why do you get to judge? Phelix Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM
I don't think all of three lines in the bible amounts to the expressive message of christianity.


Personally, my faith doesn't hinge on those lines, but there are people out there to whom they matter quite a bit.

Who are you to judge what the core message of their faith is?
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill

*MySmiley*
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Gay Marriage MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 1950 Views
I disagree on the latter part snoopcester - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1304 Views
I follow your point... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1290 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1282 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1250 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1120 Views
You didn't read my post. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1160 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1208 Views
Um, you're wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1196 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1170 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM 604 Views
You're still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1304 Views
Re: You're still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1154 Views
Again, you are still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1204 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 1052 Views
Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1311 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 623 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 650 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1214 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1214 Views
Also also: Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1199 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1147 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1243 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1127 Views
Also MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1256 Views
And wrong again. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1282 Views
Not so quick! MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1118 Views
Yes, so quick! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 1066 Views
Let's be reasonable here MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1178 Views
Why do you get to judge? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1208 Views
I don't MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 1086 Views
OK. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1204 Views
Re: OK. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1144 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM 1097 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM 1212 Views
Then please stop. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1172 Views
What's wrong with discussion? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1120 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1139 Views
Really? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1157 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1143 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 1022 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1155 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1130 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1230 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1104 Views
You are wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 953 Views
Really? Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 1027 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1128 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1209 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1201 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1131 Views
Gah. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 1073 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 578 Views
What a mature response. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1281 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1203 Views
Re: Yes. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1150 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1074 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1163 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1185 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 1090 Views
+1 Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 964 Views
Hehe Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 1010 Views
Um Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1226 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 571 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 607 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 508 Views
It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 1073 Views
Re: It makes no sense MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1149 Views
Re: It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1239 Views
It's not sanctioning anything MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1165 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1140 Views
Nonsense snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1089 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... Kronin al'Sulc - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 1056 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1175 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1108 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1233 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1213 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 412 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1187 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1170 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 576 Views
really? Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 1045 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 969 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 541 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 1013 Views
Which is interesting Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1001 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 981 Views
Original poster. *NM* Rebekah - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 605 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 1036 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 1050 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 952 Views
Ya know?!? Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 1067 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1165 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1185 Views
There is a difference... Dannymac - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1215 Views
No you don't. snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1192 Views
That's another concern Isaac - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1249 Views
Not quite my point snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1120 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1250 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. Legolas - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 1081 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM 1123 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM 1133 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM 1116 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1172 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 1012 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. random thoughts - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 1028 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 1041 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 1064 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1194 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1127 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1209 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 1077 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1178 Views
Of course it would random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1262 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 627 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 618 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1143 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 619 Views
Simples snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1148 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1113 Views
So. snoopcester - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 1000 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad random thoughts - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1507 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny snoopcester - 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM 1336 Views
Agreed *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 499 Views
I love you, Camilla lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 945 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1138 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 646 Views
Naturally. Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1134 Views
I know I do *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 579 Views
Another thing MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1229 Views
A couple of things SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1132 Views
I disagree MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1251 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1214 Views
there is major flaw in your argument random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1255 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1143 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 1077 Views
One point about Prop. 8 Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1086 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 1040 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1126 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM 950 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM 1110 Views
there are major flaws in your argument MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1222 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 903 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 535 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 538 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... lyringlas - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1150 Views
I feel your pain *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 623 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1214 Views
100% agreed. LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1222 Views
This. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 459 Views
You are absolutely wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1158 Views
By that token Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1069 Views
My God.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1114 Views
no You are absolutely wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 1061 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1130 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin. Tom - 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM 1088 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. Seriana Sedai - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1239 Views
Fair enough. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1192 Views
Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 1104 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1156 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 1087 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 943 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1250 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM 634 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM 601 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Sidious - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1304 Views
+1 Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1264 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1188 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 1016 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1195 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 586 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 601 Views
It's not snarky. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1130 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1415 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 1067 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1252 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 1047 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1231 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1143 Views
LOL Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1099 Views
Re: LOL Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 1056 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1106 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 1039 Views
No, marriage started because of property. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1137 Views
So then two things come to mind... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1117 Views
Only two? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1113 Views
Is this the same guy... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 1023 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1101 Views
That's a little difficult to do SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1279 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1148 Views
Oh, I hope not SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1155 Views
I may be wrong Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1101 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 1037 Views
True enough SilverWarder - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1333 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights random thoughts - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1110 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1103 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law random thoughts - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1109 Views
moot, not mute Camilla - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1377 Views
damn random thoughts - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1187 Views
Actually, I agree with that snoopcester - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 1005 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 996 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 1064 Views
Rights.... Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 1075 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about jh - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1103 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1220 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 636 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1238 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* jh - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 577 Views
Starting again Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1208 Views
Not at all MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1135 Views
Re: Not at all Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 920 Views
Agreed *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 475 Views
Oh dear Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 1030 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 606 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 924 Views
I'm curious Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 1091 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 965 Views
Okay, good. Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1148 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? Dannymac - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1183 Views
very nicely said *NM* random thoughts - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 487 Views
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