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I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM
who was having sex with a cow, so his villiage made him "marry" it so that their shame would be less? And then afterwards they killed the cow to help remove their shame?

I can see your point, but I still doesn't fly with me. It speaks of you wanting equality in the eyes of the law...of financial benefits...of tax incentives...of a household. But then there is a strong undercurrent that you want acceptance and approval of your chosen lifestyle as well. Not just from the state, but from your peers as well.

Is that what you want? Do you want people all over the world to accept your chosen lifestyle? To see it as every bit as legitimate and right and natural as their heterosexual marriage?

~Jeordam


Should I ever decide to marry a man, I want the government to recognize the reality that we are a functioning domestic unit just the same as a heterosexual couple doing the same thing is. The fight for gay marriage is about this.

Being seen as equals, peers, the same as everyone else, legitimate... it's a basic drive in people to be accepted, so yes, I would like my peers, my family, my friends to accept me. But that won't have anything to do with whether or not gay marriage is legal. I will build my friendships based on mutual respect and if someone cannot accept me as being queer, I'll have to realize that that relationship is limited.

As far as legitimacy goes, as long as the rest of the world accepts that my contractual agreement is the same as any heterosexual contractual agreement, then I don't give a flying hoot if they think I'm in a "real" relationship. People de-legitimize a lot of things... I have cousins who say that the boy they're dating right now isn't a keeper because he's brown, that they're waiting for a real relationship. The implication being that they can't have a real relationship with a brown man, but must wait for a white man to have something "real."

There are churches that refuse to recognize interracial marriages, groups that don't recognize interfaith marriages, and more.

I'll find my own community that accepts me and mine. I don't need the whole world.
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill

*MySmiley*
Reply to message
Gay Marriage - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 1968 Views
I disagree on the latter part - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1320 Views
I follow your point... - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1305 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1301 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1271 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1139 Views
You didn't read my post. - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1177 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1251 Views
Um, you're wrong. - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1214 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1191 Views
You're still wrong. - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1321 Views
Re: You're still wrong. - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1171 Views
Again, you are still wrong. - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1222 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 1068 Views
Wrong definition of "club" - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1328 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 631 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 657 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1235 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1234 Views
Also also: - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1215 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1192 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1262 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1144 Views
Also - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1278 Views
And wrong again. - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1303 Views
Not so quick! - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1134 Views
Yes, so quick! - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 1084 Views
Let's be reasonable here - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1196 Views
Why do you get to judge? - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1228 Views
I don't - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 1104 Views
OK. - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1228 Views
Re: OK. - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1163 Views
Then please stop. - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1188 Views
What's wrong with discussion? - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1139 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1156 Views
Really? - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1176 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1156 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 1041 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1174 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1147 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1249 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1121 Views
You are wrong - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 969 Views
Really? - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 1044 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1146 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1227 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1219 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1147 Views
Gah. - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 1091 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 584 Views
What a mature response. - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1298 Views
Yes. - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1228 Views
Re: Yes. - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1169 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1090 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1182 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1201 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 1109 Views
+1 - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 982 Views
Hehe - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 1028 Views
Um - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1243 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 578 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 613 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 516 Views
It makes no sense - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 1092 Views
Re: It makes no sense - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1167 Views
Re: It makes no sense - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1261 Views
It's not sanctioning anything - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1183 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1159 Views
Nonsense - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1108 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 1076 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1195 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1125 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1251 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1234 Views
*NM* - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 418 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1206 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1192 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 582 Views
really? - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 1062 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 985 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 548 Views
Yes - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 1032 Views
Which is interesting - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1019 Views
Yes - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 998 Views
Original poster. *NM* - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 611 Views
- 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 1053 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 1067 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 970 Views
Ya know?!? - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 1085 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1182 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1202 Views
There is a difference... - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1231 Views
No you don't. - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1210 Views
That's another concern - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1268 Views
Not quite my point - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1136 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1269 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 1098 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1196 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 1028 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 1047 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 1066 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 1083 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1212 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1143 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1227 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 1093 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1195 Views
Of course it would - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1279 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 634 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 625 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1161 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 624 Views
Simples - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1169 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1131 Views
So. - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 1020 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1528 Views
Agreed *NM* - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 506 Views
I love you, Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 964 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1161 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 653 Views
Naturally. - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1153 Views
I know I do *NM* - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 588 Views
Another thing - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1246 Views
A couple of things - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1147 Views
I disagree - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1286 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1232 Views
there is major flaw in your argument - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1274 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1162 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 1094 Views
One point about Prop. 8 - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1132 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 1057 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1145 Views
there are major flaws in your argument - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1269 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 923 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 541 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 545 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1165 Views
I feel your pain *NM* - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 632 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1231 Views
100% agreed. - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1260 Views
This. *NM* - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 465 Views
You are absolutely wrong - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1176 Views
By that token - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1087 Views
My God.... - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1131 Views
no You are absolutely wrong - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 1078 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1148 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1258 Views
Fair enough. - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1209 Views
Why do people equate.... - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 1126 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1174 Views
So then.... - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 1104 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 965 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1269 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1322 Views
+1 - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1283 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1205 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 1033 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1212 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 592 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 607 Views
It's not snarky. - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1168 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1436 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 1084 Views
*shrug* - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1270 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 1066 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1258 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1160 Views
LOL - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1136 Views
Re: LOL - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 1076 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1124 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 1055 Views
No, marriage started because of property. - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1155 Views
So then two things come to mind... - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1135 Views
Only two? - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1128 Views
Is this the same guy... - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 1040 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1118 Views
That's a little difficult to do - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1318 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1169 Views
Oh, I hope not - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1171 Views
I may be wrong - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1132 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 1057 Views
True enough - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1348 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1127 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1121 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1124 Views
moot, not mute - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1411 Views
damn - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1206 Views
Actually, I agree with that - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 1023 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 1017 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 1082 Views
Rights.... - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 1094 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1121 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1236 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 642 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1254 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 583 Views
Starting again - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1227 Views
Not at all - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1153 Views
Re: Not at all - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 937 Views
Agreed *NM* - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 483 Views
Oh dear - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 1049 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 613 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 986 Views
I'm curious - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 1114 Views
- 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 982 Views
Okay, good. - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1170 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1199 Views
very nicely said *NM* - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 493 Views

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