Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
Rebekah Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM
And, fair dos to the Roman Catholics, but their way ain't necessarily the right way.
So. Onwards and upwards.
But it wouldn't be good for our church, and it's our church that matters to us.
There is this thing in the Bible called "disputable matters". There are central tenets of the Christian faith that most, if not all churches have in common: the virgin birth, the death of Christ on the cross to save us from our sins, the Resurrection.
And then there are the other things, the things that can be interpreted in different ways. These are things like contraception, homosexuality, etc.
It's important you understand that before I continue.
We do approve of contraception because we do not believe that the Bible stipulates that sex is solely for procreation. There are many verses that talk about how enjoyable and good it is to have sex, and they wouldn't be there if sex was just for making babies.
As for divorce: as far as I know, there is no form for divorce in the church I attend, which suggests it isn't sanctioned as such. However, being realists, and knowing that people sin, I don't know whether we'd prevent people from remarrying. I've only been going here for 3 1/2 years (since I moved to the UK) and it's never come up. I know that in my church in New Zealand people can get married again, but that comes after some serious questions and the reasons for divorce have to be "good": continued, unrepentant infidelity, abuse, etc.
No, because those are not things that all churches consider to be sins. The only ones that are indisputable would be the 10 Commandments, and only then if the church cares about the Old Testament (mine does).
Yes, He accepted sinners, but He also told them to repent and live a new life.
That's your mind. Centuries of theologians past and present disagree with you. There are those who agree as well, and, as it's a disputable matter, there are few churches who would say that condoning homosexuality means that you are not a Christian.
And, for the record, I am definitely not one of those. For me, the homosexual act is one sin of many possible, neither greater nor lesser than others. It is just one.
So. Onwards and upwards.
Aside from the good you could do by allowing gay marriage, I see your point about feeling like you were doing wrong by allowing homosexuals to marry in your church.
But it wouldn't be good for our church, and it's our church that matters to us.
There is this thing in the Bible called "disputable matters". There are central tenets of the Christian faith that most, if not all churches have in common: the virgin birth, the death of Christ on the cross to save us from our sins, the Resurrection.
And then there are the other things, the things that can be interpreted in different ways. These are things like contraception, homosexuality, etc.
It's important you understand that before I continue.
I admit that I don't know every practice in your church. Does it approve of contraceptions? Does it permit divorce?
We do approve of contraception because we do not believe that the Bible stipulates that sex is solely for procreation. There are many verses that talk about how enjoyable and good it is to have sex, and they wouldn't be there if sex was just for making babies.
As for divorce: as far as I know, there is no form for divorce in the church I attend, which suggests it isn't sanctioned as such. However, being realists, and knowing that people sin, I don't know whether we'd prevent people from remarrying. I've only been going here for 3 1/2 years (since I moved to the UK) and it's never come up. I know that in my church in New Zealand people can get married again, but that comes after some serious questions and the reasons for divorce have to be "good": continued, unrepentant infidelity, abuse, etc.
If it does to either then it seems like at least some sins are "sanctioned."
No, because those are not things that all churches consider to be sins. The only ones that are indisputable would be the 10 Commandments, and only then if the church cares about the Old Testament (mine does).
Also, I find it oddly important to you that homosexuality not be encouraged in any way in your church. Maybe the bible doesn't encourage homosexuality, but it places much more emphasis on accepting outcasts and taking in people of all kinds. We are all sinners and we are all gods children. Love your neighbor and love your enemy. Jesus Christ never once spoke any recorded words on homosexuality. Rather, he spoke much more on accepting outcasts. Embracing all.
Yes, He accepted sinners, but He also told them to repent and live a new life.
Banning gay marriage, in my view, seems like an unfairly emphasized part of the bible that hides what is often a form of homophobia. This may and probably is not the case with you and most members of your church. But to so vehemently oppose gay marriage, to deprive two individuals of a holy recognition of their love, in my mind, ought to require a bit more textual commentary than three lines.
That's your mind. Centuries of theologians past and present disagree with you. There are those who agree as well, and, as it's a disputable matter, there are few churches who would say that condoning homosexuality means that you are not a Christian.
And, for the record, I am definitely not one of those. For me, the homosexual act is one sin of many possible, neither greater nor lesser than others. It is just one.
*MySmiley*
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
Gay Marriage
- 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM
2060 Views
I disagree on the latter part
- 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM
1394 Views
I follow your point...
- 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM
1385 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously.
- 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM
1412 Views
See, that's what I'm saying...
- 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM
1342 Views
You didn't read my post.
- 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM
1272 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post
- 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM
1348 Views
Um, you're wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM
1297 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM
1297 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM
1265 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM
1265 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM
641 Views
You're still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM
1402 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM
1402 Views
Re: You're still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM
1254 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM
1254 Views
Again, you are still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM
1323 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM
1323 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM
1147 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM
1147 Views
Wrong definition of "club"
- 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM
1404 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club"
- 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM
1311 Views
Also
- 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM
1362 Views
And wrong again.
- 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM
1380 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM
1380 Views
Not so quick!
- 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM
1212 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM
1212 Views
Yes, so quick!
- 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM
1165 Views
Let's be reasonable here
- 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM
1270 Views
Why do you get to judge?
- 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM
1306 Views
I don't
- 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM
1191 Views
OK.
- 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM
1298 Views
Re: OK.
- 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM
1262 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
- 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM
1209 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
- 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM
1322 Views
Then please stop.
- 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM
1264 Views
- 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM
1264 Views
What's wrong with discussion?
- 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM
1222 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something.
- 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM
1237 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay?
- 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM
1129 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay?
- 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM
1249 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer.
- 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM
1230 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer.
- 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM
1326 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes.
- 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM
1222 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need
- 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM
1311 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need
- 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM
1221 Views
Gah.
- 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM
1171 Views
What a mature response.
- 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM
1381 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se.
- 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM
1180 Views
Um
- 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM
1324 Views
That's a very good question. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM
615 Views
It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM
1169 Views
Re: It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM
1243 Views
Re: It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM
1332 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder...
- 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM
1159 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder...
- 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM
1269 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin?
- 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM
1326 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin?
- 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM
1280 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that!
*NM*
- 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM
618 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM
1074 Views
*NM*
- 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM
618 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM
1074 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM*
- 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM
582 Views
Yes
- 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM
1115 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off.
- 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM
1141 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage
- 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM
1355 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately.
- 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM
1172 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing.
- 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM
1227 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me.
- 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM
1223 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem.
- 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM
1212 Views
What in the world would that accomplish?
- 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM
1272 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently.
- 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM
1100 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition..
- 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM
1129 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough*
- 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM
1155 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it
- 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM
1164 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit.
- 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM
1275 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better
- 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM
1222 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful?
- 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM
1324 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic
- 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM
1162 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM
681 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views
*NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM
661 Views
*NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM
661 Views
Simples
- 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM
1244 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism
- 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM
1205 Views
So.
- 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM
1091 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad
- 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM
1600 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny
- 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM
1430 Views
- 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM
1430 Views
Agreed *NM*
- 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM
536 Views
I love you, Camilla
- 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM
1038 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla
- 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM
1238 Views
A couple of things
- 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM
1223 Views
there is major flaw in your argument
- 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM
1353 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument
- 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM
1241 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage
- 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM
1178 Views
One point about Prop. 8
- 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM
1207 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong
- 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM
1136 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it.
- 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM
1222 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons
- 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM
1041 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions.
- 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM
1209 Views
there are major flaws in your argument
- 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM
1346 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church.
- 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM
991 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional.
- 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM
1313 Views
You are absolutely wrong
- 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM
1267 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin.
- 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM
1180 Views
Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM
1205 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning...
- 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM
1247 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM*
- 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM
675 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM
636 Views
Re: Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM
1422 Views
+1
- 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM
1361 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla.
- 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM
1288 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed"
- 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM
1118 Views
Which speaks highly of you....
- 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM
1290 Views
This is being very petty. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM
624 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM
645 Views
It's not snarky.
- 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM
1271 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment...
- 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM
1521 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations?
- 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM
1155 Views
Re: Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM
1354 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious
- 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM
1213 Views
Ok, so if the state does then...
- 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM
1142 Views
No, marriage started because of property.
- 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM
1235 Views
So then two things come to mind...
- 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM
1214 Views
Only two?
- 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM
1205 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM
1205 Views
That's a little difficult to do
- 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM
1425 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do
- 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM
1257 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights
- 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM
1202 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back...
- 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM
1207 Views
Actually, I agree with that
- 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM
1101 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about
- 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM
1207 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state.
- 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM
1314 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM
676 Views
Starting again
- 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM
1328 Views
Not at all
- 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM
1229 Views
Re: Not at all
- 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM
1029 Views
Agreed *NM*
- 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM
520 Views
Oh dear
- 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM
1128 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft?
- 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM
1282 Views

*NM*
*NM*
*NM*