Er, not enough Jews to be a problem, to put it crudely.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 16/08/2010 09:50:41 PM
Many Jews fled Germany under the Nazi-regime in the thirties, and one assumes they'd have continued to do so if war hadn't started. Perhaps in the end he'd still have engaged in genocide on the Jews that stayed behind, but I think that's unlikely. The Nazi-regime did actually consider some plans of mass expulsion of Jews at first, it's not like they were genocidal from the start, at first they merely wanted them out; it's not until the invasion of the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 that they actually started engaging in genocide, and not until the Wannsee Conference of January 1942 that the plans for the extermination camps were begun. If they would only have had the German Jews to deal with, minus the ones that had already immigrated or fled of their own volition, perhaps the mass expulsion schemes would have worked - or perhaps they wouldn't even have bothered, accepting that a small number of Jews remained in Germany. Who knows.
So yeah, you can't see the Holocaust as separate from the war. It was to a large extent Polish and Russian Jews, plus smaller numbers from other countries, who died in the Holocaust, but without war those people would never have been in Hitler's hands.
Bottom line, alternative history is too complicated to engage in it just to make simple points. But any attempt to look at Hitler's Germany without the war is going to be a lot less spectacular and proverbially evil than it's considered in reality, and a lot more comparable to plenty of other dictatorships.
So yeah, you can't see the Holocaust as separate from the war. It was to a large extent Polish and Russian Jews, plus smaller numbers from other countries, who died in the Holocaust, but without war those people would never have been in Hitler's hands.
Bottom line, alternative history is too complicated to engage in it just to make simple points. But any attempt to look at Hitler's Germany without the war is going to be a lot less spectacular and proverbially evil than it's considered in reality, and a lot more comparable to plenty of other dictatorships.
At what point does it become ok to take over a country?
16/08/2010 04:25:09 PM
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why would we want to make Mexico our problem? *NM*
16/08/2010 04:30:48 PM
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Yeah that's why i don't want us to take over. I think the US is already too big as is *NM*
16/08/2010 04:37:41 PM
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One might argue it already is. The other way around too, though. *NM*
16/08/2010 04:44:19 PM
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I'm fairly sure that yes, the majority of them have national pride.
16/08/2010 04:51:38 PM
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Re: I'm fairly sure that yes, the majority of them have national pride.
16/08/2010 05:11:49 PM
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Actually, make that number 120 to 150. *NM*
16/08/2010 05:14:15 PM
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We don't invade countries we can't locate on the map...
16/08/2010 06:01:43 PM
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So that means there are only five or so countries you can invade, one of them yourself?
16/08/2010 06:11:43 PM
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Re: So that means there are only five or so countries you can invade, one of them yourself?
16/08/2010 06:30:56 PM
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When they get on your nerves or have something you want, preferably both
16/08/2010 05:04:10 PM
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I agree we should attack Canada instead
16/08/2010 05:19:48 PM
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Yeah, but they don't gouge us for the oil, cost the same as anyone else *NM*
16/08/2010 05:49:38 PM
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I would legalize drugs ten times over before I would annex Mexico.
16/08/2010 05:36:37 PM
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"I would stop doing a bad thing 10 times over before I did a worse thing"? WTF? *NM*
16/08/2010 06:04:48 PM
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Read the original post. He proposes annexing Mexico due to the drug problem.
16/08/2010 06:28:54 PM
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He's just nitpicking on your phrasing in the subject line. I think. *NM*
16/08/2010 06:37:17 PM
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that sounds like a much better immigration solution idea than "let's build a GIGANTIC FENCE!!!" *NM*
16/08/2010 06:33:46 PM
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Work Visas might help, but...
16/08/2010 06:51:11 PM
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Oh i know it's not a complete solution and i have no problem with a fence
16/08/2010 07:43:26 PM
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Just so long as we're both on the 'multi-front solution' page
16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM
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it's also worth noting that no one is proposing throwing out the Cubans
16/08/2010 08:54:46 PM
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When the US says so. We are the bosses of the World, are we not? *NM*
16/08/2010 08:06:08 PM
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Not even Hitler's Germany? (if he never went to war but just stayed put) Reply to Yuna *NM*
16/08/2010 09:24:41 PM
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If he had never gone to war, that would also have meant no Holocaust... *NM*
16/08/2010 09:28:16 PM
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Really? Why is that? I'm not too terribly familiar with Hitler's reasons for mass genocide *NM*
16/08/2010 09:30:48 PM
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Er, not enough Jews to be a problem, to put it crudely.
16/08/2010 09:50:41 PM
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Dachau opened in '33, Nuremburg Laws were '35
16/08/2010 09:36:59 PM
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Ok that's what I was thinking
16/08/2010 09:45:51 PM
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Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating".
16/08/2010 09:52:37 PM
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Re: Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating".
16/08/2010 09:54:29 PM
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I don't know if there's really anything to specifically compare it to...
16/08/2010 10:00:59 PM
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Also, perhaps someone should just invoke the (variation of the) Godwin Law and stop this whole thing
16/08/2010 10:02:23 PM
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Ah,
16/08/2010 10:04:39 PM
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Nah, more like, I know I shouldn't have done this, but I couldn't resist. *NM*
16/08/2010 10:07:35 PM
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Well, you'll note I didn't make that causal relation you attribute to me.
16/08/2010 09:55:39 PM
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The Dachau follow up was bookkeeping
16/08/2010 10:05:35 PM
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I'm confused, but I'll take that as something I don't have to argue.
16/08/2010 10:09:16 PM
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Re: I'm confused, but I'll take that as something I don't have to argue.
16/08/2010 10:19:19 PM
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The US already took half of Mexico, so why not the other half?
16/08/2010 09:57:56 PM
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"Took" is an unfriendly word, we purchased it *NM*
16/08/2010 10:21:58 PM
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yes after a messy political and physical "conflict"
16/08/2010 10:53:22 PM
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There was also the Gasdsen Purchase
17/08/2010 12:30:21 AM
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The Gadsden Purchase was a pittance and an afterthought, as I'm sure you're aware.
18/08/2010 12:36:24 PM
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and why did it belong to Mexico to begin with? *NM*
17/08/2010 01:28:28 AM
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same way it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it.
17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM
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my best friend is an illegal and is going back to mexico in a few months
16/08/2010 11:28:11 PM
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every issue is simpler when you don't have faces to represent it for you. *NM*
16/08/2010 11:29:38 PM
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We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
17/08/2010 12:58:37 AM
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Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
17/08/2010 02:39:11 AM
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Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
17/08/2010 03:34:59 AM
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I think maybe we've had enough of nation building for a while *NM*
17/08/2010 02:45:22 AM
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