You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point
Rowland Send a noteboard - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM
(edit because I'm dumb and forgot to preview)
Personally, as a Christian, I do note vote *against* Gay marriage. I wouldn't for *for* it either, though. I view homosexuality as the Bible does, as sin. I also happen to see that the Bible points out *a lot* of things as sin, like lying and adultery, and that there is little value to singling out Gay people as being some kind of "super" sinners. We've all fallen short and, while homosexuality has a much bigger "gross" factor to the rest of us, it doesn't make it legitimate grounds for demonizing folk.
Whether or not you are demonizing homosexuals, the simple fact is that they are being treated differently than all the other sinners. Sure, we're all sinners in the eyes of the Lord, great, but all those other sinners can still be married. If gays aren't super sinners, as you put it, why are they singled out in this regard? You state that you don't support gay marriage without addressing this simple disconnect. And whether or not I agree with his argument that this leads to an implicit sanctioning of their bullying or whatever other mistreatment, that kind of renders the rest of your argument rather academic.
A question: Do you "support" atheist marriage? Interfaith marriage? Divorce and remarriage? All are legal, all go against Christian and/or traditional ideas about marriage, and yet there's no "Christian" movement to deny marriage rights to atheists or people marrying outside their respective faiths or people divorcing and remarrying. Why the hell not?
Personally, as a Christian, I do note vote *against* Gay marriage. I wouldn't for *for* it either, though. I view homosexuality as the Bible does, as sin. I also happen to see that the Bible points out *a lot* of things as sin, like lying and adultery, and that there is little value to singling out Gay people as being some kind of "super" sinners. We've all fallen short and, while homosexuality has a much bigger "gross" factor to the rest of us, it doesn't make it legitimate grounds for demonizing folk.
Whether or not you are demonizing homosexuals, the simple fact is that they are being treated differently than all the other sinners. Sure, we're all sinners in the eyes of the Lord, great, but all those other sinners can still be married. If gays aren't super sinners, as you put it, why are they singled out in this regard? You state that you don't support gay marriage without addressing this simple disconnect. And whether or not I agree with his argument that this leads to an implicit sanctioning of their bullying or whatever other mistreatment, that kind of renders the rest of your argument rather academic.
This message last edited by Rowland on 13/10/2010 at 05:52:56 PM
Love the Sinner
- 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM
1274 Views
I have to think about that for a while.
- 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM
801 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations
- 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM
739 Views
That is not what I think requires thought
- 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM
756 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try 
or how much I would do Jean Grey
- 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM
882 Views
or how much I would do Jean Grey
- 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM
882 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM*
- 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM
374 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves
- 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM
781 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned
- 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM
774 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) 
- 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM
859 Views
- 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM
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I'm not sure that is true
- 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM
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When's the last time you heard the quote attributed to anyone else?
- 13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM
724 Views
- 13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM
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That many people don't know the correct origin doesn't change it though
- 13/10/2010 09:31:13 PM
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I think you are missing his point
- 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM
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Question (and this one actually is asking for information 
)...
- 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM
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)...
- 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM
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I have seen gays be bullied before
- 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM
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You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM*
- 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM
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why do you believe that? Because I don't agree with what you said?
- 13/10/2010 07:30:27 PM
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I said you aren't listening to a thing I said, for you didn't respond to anything that I wrote
- 13/10/2010 07:52:50 PM
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you are not interested in talking to anyone who doesn't agree with you
- 13/10/2010 09:01:03 PM
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I think there's truth in this as well.
- 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM
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churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it
- 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM
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Re: I think you are missing his point
- 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM
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Re: I think you are missing his point
- 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM
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Re: I think you are missing his point
- 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM
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Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
- 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM
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Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
- 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM
868 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew?
- 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM
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I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you?
- 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM
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There's a good case on both sides (try Strong's Concordance, if you haven't, btw. )
- 15/10/2010 05:09:21 AM
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You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point
- 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM
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so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying?
- 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM
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Many good points there; I think I'll let you play Defender of the Faith for a bit.
- 14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM
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- 14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM
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I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view
- 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM
768 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things
- 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM
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I mostly agree
- 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM
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most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance
- 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM
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Let me see if I can understand where we agree, it is hard to do with all the Sarcasm 
- 13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM
804 Views
- 13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM
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Meh. He's not entirely incorrect. But not all Christians are anti-gay.
- 13/10/2010 08:43:04 PM
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It is better to be a Tolkein than a Token
- 13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM
796 Views
- 13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM
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If I were a Tolkien liberal Christian, wouldn't that make me an American Roman Catholic? 
*NM*
- 13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM
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*NM*
- 13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM
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Interesting
- 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
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His first three sentences were totally unecessary. The rest is conspiracy-laden nonsense.
- 14/10/2010 12:37:06 AM
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Re:
- 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM
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I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker.
- 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM
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Re:
- 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM
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It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
- 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM
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I don't think there is any question...
- 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM
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A lot of Christian doctrine states that people cannot know who is worthy of God and it's not up to
- 14/10/2010 05:41:19 AM
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I think he's reading a lot of things into that letter that aren't there.
- 14/10/2010 08:22:13 AM
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