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Re: I think you are missing his point Roland00 Send a noteboard - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM
It's tricky, because so many Gays embrace their... uh, Gay-ness, if you will, as a large part of their identity. For better or worse, they're promoting that difference and making it a prominent part of who they are. I realize some of this is in defiance of the norm, but it still goes to show that part of the "difference" is self-imposed.

Well they have a disagreement with you on the nature of sin. Gays are either A) Not Christian or B) Christian. They group of gays that fall under the part B) Christian have a fundamental disagreement with you on the nature of sin. They believe that being gay is an inherent part of their being, it was the way that God made them, since God made them that way they should not struggle against their nature. Instead they should embrace their nature, embrace their humanity and their own dignity, and through that dignity find a way to establish a relationship with God, a divine being that is infinite. It is through their own humanity that they can learn how to establish a relationship with something beyond themselves.

Many theologians argue that this is one reason that God made himself both man and God with his son Jesus Christ. It is through his son that we learn how to establish a relationship with the son and the father, it is through his son that we learn on the proper way to live.

Having a honest disagreement on how one views himself should not be a reason to devolve into an US vs Them arrangement. An honest disagreement on a world view doesn't even escalate to the area of "enemy" and yet Jesus said we should love our enemies. The world that Jesus lived in had hundreds of groups who had different world views of God, some were Roman, some were Jews, some were the other religions of the Mediterranean. Yet Jesus taught cooperation with all. His most potent parables were even about different branches of Judaism bickering over trivial details yet missing the bigger picture.

Unfortunately, Gays aren't the only people being bullied or committing suicide. Kids are vicious, regardless, but we should do what we can to stop bullying. (as it's cowardly and harmful)

Yes we should do whatever we can to stop bullying. But the reasons of a higher rate of suicide with Gays are showing we obviously aren't doing enough. When a rate of something is over 100% compared to the general population than that shows either two things:
1) There is something fundamentally different about the two populations (this is possible)
2) That the environment treats the two populations differently (which is what I find far more likely based on my experiences).
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Love the Sinner Roland00 - 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM 1438 Views
I have to think about that for a while. nossy - 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM 1003 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations Roland00 - 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM 923 Views
That is not what I think requires thought nossy - 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM 934 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey Roland00 - 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM 1072 Views
for ze record nossy - 14/10/2010 02:54:07 AM 958 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM* random thoughts - 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM 454 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves LadyLorraine - 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM 945 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned random thoughts - 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM 955 Views
Re: I have to think about that for a while. Rebekah - 13/10/2010 06:29:09 PM 930 Views
He was very frank but completely founded Fox and Ravens - 13/10/2010 04:34:46 PM 1054 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) Zalis - 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM 1038 Views
I'm not sure that is true snoopcester - 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM 923 Views
When's the last time you heard the quote attributed to anyone else? Zalis - 13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM 895 Views
That many people don't know the correct origin doesn't change it though snoopcester - 13/10/2010 09:31:13 PM 1045 Views
I think you are missing his point Roland00 - 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM 1029 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )... Legolas - 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM 824 Views
Yes and no Roland00 - 13/10/2010 06:53:26 PM 1108 Views
Okay, fair enough. *NM* Legolas - 13/10/2010 07:48:21 PM 429 Views
I would think... damookster - 14/10/2010 04:35:31 AM 986 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before random thoughts - 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM 1041 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM* Roland00 - 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM 438 Views
why do you believe that? Because I don't agree with what you said? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 07:30:27 PM 952 Views
I said you aren't listening to a thing I said, for you didn't respond to anything that I wrote Roland00 - 13/10/2010 07:52:50 PM 958 Views
you are not interested in talking to anyone who doesn't agree with you random thoughts - 13/10/2010 09:01:03 PM 931 Views
I think there's truth in this as well. Legolas - 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM 962 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it random thoughts - 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM 931 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point Zalis - 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM 990 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point Roland00 - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM 1010 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point Zalis - 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM 1027 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level Roland00 - 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM 1045 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level Zalis - 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM 1057 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew? Roland00 - 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM 901 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you? Zalis - 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM 1053 Views
There's a good case on both sides (try Strong's Concordance, if you haven't, btw. ) Joel - 15/10/2010 05:09:21 AM 1481 Views
I don't look to Christianity for my answers Roland00 - 15/10/2010 03:02:16 PM 1007 Views
Re: I don't look to Christianity for my answers Zalis - 15/10/2010 04:27:25 PM 1057 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point Rowland - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM 1068 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM 949 Views
Re: You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point Zalis - 13/10/2010 08:23:07 PM 970 Views
That seems a little myopic to me. Joel - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM 937 Views
Many good points there; I think I'll let you play Defender of the Faith for a bit. Joel - 14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM 1059 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view random thoughts - 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM 941 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things ßelals Girl - 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM 1035 Views
I mostly agree ironclad - 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM 1099 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance random thoughts - 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM 909 Views
I thought I pretty much agreed with you on that point ironclad - 14/10/2010 07:44:07 PM 965 Views
Let me see if I can understand where we agree, it is hard to do with all the Sarcasm Roland00 - 13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM 996 Views
Meh. He's not entirely incorrect. But not all Christians are anti-gay. Ghavrel - 13/10/2010 08:43:04 PM 999 Views
It is better to be a Tolkein than a Token Roland00 - 13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM 952 Views
If I were a Tolkien liberal Christian, wouldn't that make me an American Roman Catholic? *NM* Ghavrel - 13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM 387 Views
Interesting scalius - 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 1269 Views
Sometime rants do work and change people's mind Roland00 - 13/10/2010 09:23:39 PM 916 Views
and sometoimes they are just rants *NM* random thoughts - 13/10/2010 10:01:55 PM 388 Views
Okay my response now Roland00 - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM 994 Views
His first three sentences were totally unecessary. The rest is conspiracy-laden nonsense. everynametaken - 14/10/2010 12:37:06 AM 1065 Views
He becomes what he hates. eucatastrophe - 14/10/2010 02:40:19 AM 1147 Views
Good stuff. *NM* Aeryn - 14/10/2010 02:56:44 AM 410 Views
Re: Gaps - 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM 1028 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. Joel - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM 1086 Views
Re: Gaps - 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM 1078 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. Joel - 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM 963 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. Gaps - 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM 1032 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. Joel - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM 959 Views
I don't think there is any question... damookster - 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM 965 Views
If I may quibble: Ghavrel - 14/10/2010 05:22:22 AM 823 Views
A lot of Christian doctrine states that people cannot know who is worthy of God and it's not up to Helene - 14/10/2010 05:41:19 AM 969 Views
And a lot of Christians who should know better forget this. Joel - 14/10/2010 10:16:51 AM 1024 Views
He's bullying Christians Helene - 14/10/2010 04:47:13 AM 959 Views
I agree BlackAdder - 14/10/2010 04:09:23 PM 1030 Views
I think he's reading a lot of things into that letter that aren't there. Joel - 14/10/2010 08:22:13 AM 925 Views
Two seperate things are mingled here Bramhodoulos - 14/10/2010 09:50:42 AM 1167 Views
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